090 | Stimulate Your Entrepreneurial Spirit | Build Ecosystem Like An Ocean | Sid Mohasseb

Today we’ll be talking with Sid Mohasseb. At 16, Sid migrated to the US without his family. At 21, he started and exited his first company while at college. At 25, he taught comparative Eastern and Western philosophy. At 27, he became the youngest partner of a national management-consulting firm, serving fortune 500 clients with operational improvements and strategy formulation. During the next two decades, he supported large scale acquisitions and acted as a principal investor in middle-market companies, leading company turnarounds from near bankruptcy to profitability. Sid founded and led several early-stage and hyper-growth companies from inception to acquisition. Sid has served on the boards of over a dozen profit and non-profit companies. He is a university professor at different universities, a fund manager, and an angel investor. Many times over, Sid has shouldered the responsibility for meeting payroll and has written checks to acquire or invest in companies, learning to think both like an investor and a founder and facing, accepting, and overcoming his share of failures and successes in ideas and ventures.


Oh my god, you have accomplished so much. I’m so excited to talk to you and learn from you today.


Thank you so much for that wonderful introduction. And, and I felt kind of old, when you would really know that. It’s been a it’s been a journey.


Awsome, awesome. Yeah, I focus on your, the younger day. So I’m curious to know what the latter part of your journey was like. So if you can share that with us, that will be amazing start.


In terms of the latter part, or the early part.

Let’s go from wherever you want to pick it up from. Let’s the most interesting part of your life and, and share that with us.


I’m hoping that the most interesting part is yet to come. But what I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you a little bit about the background. And we can drill down any way you like, I think based on your audience may be most interested the last, you know, decade or two. But basically, I started very young, and I came from Iran as a as an immigrant to United States by myself, when I went to college and started my first company, I always had this article, your dream essentially. And quickly. This one company, started to work with a magic consulting firm, where I was fortunate enough to meet the guy who was a wonderful mentor for me. And I became his partner about a few years, six or seven years afterwards, five years afterwards, as a very young guy. Those days, he took me at I don’t know, 23-24 years old, he would take me to board meetings with President of, you know, Union Bank, or McDonnell .and things of that sort. So there was a phenomenal experience. I in the, in the mid to late 80s, there was this rush of leveraged buyouts in united states that a lot of people were making a lot of money off of it. And I was on the consultant side that, you know. Folks from the wall street would come to and say, we want to acquire this, but we don’t know how to run a company. So I was asked to kind of structure the organization structure, the operation, see what we can, how we can optimize and improve so that they can get their cash back after a couple of years of doing that with others, they said, Wait a minute, the money is on the other side, it’s not consulting and getting the dollar, right. So I started my own firm doing that, and had the good fortune and buying a few companies from DuPont and other other sorts in terms of spin outs. And mostly, they had some troubles that needs to be fixing. And that was basically the 90s. And along the way, I started a number of companies. Some of them purely by coincidence that there was some opportunity, I thought, Hey, this is an opportunity to start. And it became a real company, and we spit it off, and then later on shoulder.

But my last company, which I did in that period, didn’t do well. And it was a big failure in the dotcom area. And, you know, it was, it was a great idea whose time hasn’t come. And then there was the dotcom stuff, which kind of blew it up. But I was fortunate enough, again, that that I realized that early and I wrote checks back to some investors, I was the major investor and and we had some VCs and otherwise. And then at the time, when I was writing the checks, I said, we’ve never seen anything like that you’re crazy. You should. And then after the crash happened, like, two months later, they said, how’d you see this? It says, Well, I guess I got lucky, I don’t know, if you could call a loss a lock. But anyways, after about 2005 or so when I started another company after that, and we had a great run strategy really works, we 30 time increase the revenue, within a two and a half year timeframe opened up offices around the globe, I became an essentially an angel investor, and I was the president of tech coast angels and lived in Orange County, and started a venture capital firm small seed fund. And and did that for that period, after 2009, which was another downturn of the market. I jumped in as the CEO of one of my portfolio companies, and sold that to KPMG. stayed there as the head of their innovation leadership, group and innovation leadership for the Strategy Group and the head of, you know, part of the global group for the heading the data analytics initiative that they had. At that time, and then I pretty much have been writing, I wrote a book called the caterpillars edge. I’m about to write another book, which is around entrepreneurship actually, which your audience may be interested in. And what I call the choices and consequences that we make. And basically teaching at USC now as a professor, both in the engineering and, and Business School, and, and making some investments and advising some companies, I do a lot of speaking engagements, and have a lot of lot of fun on all of that it’s kind of a circle, that keeps me creative at the same time I’m able to give back. So it’s it’s it’s a great journey.


That’s amazing story. Thank you so much for sharing. Now, one question that comes to mind is you grew up in Iran. And you know, I grew up in India, growing up in a country like that, as compared to Western culture, you, you pick up a few habits itself, you know, few things, kind of mindset. Did you did you have any advantage or disadvantage while you were growing up in Iran? And how did it translate to the environment here in us?


Well, I think my I was 16, when I left, so I’m not sure how much my mind was shaped up from. From that perspective, my father was worked for bank, and then he came out and it was doing some consulting work himself. But he did have an entrepreneurial spirit, if you would. So, you know, it is always, actually I talked about this in my new book that I believe that everybody is an entrepreneur even, you know, you can have your six year old kid and the way they negotiate for an ice cream, or, you know, if you look at all the definitions of entrepreneurship is about creativity, use of funds appropriately and a bunch of others, which probably your mother in mind that as well, they use money efficiently, they applied it, they created value for their children, and so forth. So my point is that it’s the talent we all have, and some of us are privileged because that talent is stimulated based on our family. But that doesn’t mean that others cannot stimulate this talent independently. You know, call it a curse, or, or a privilege, that talent in my case was was stimulated. When I was in Iran, and before I came here,


Yeah, that’s a great point, anybody can actually reach out into their own sort of psyche and become an entrepreneur, but I think a lot of these boundaries that we set up are generally forced upon us, you know, entrepreneurship is looked upon as more risky than, than a job which I


Correct. Yeah, correct. So I’m up to believe that entrepreneurs do not actually are not risk takers. They are risk navigators. fools are risk takers, that they go to Las Vegas and throw the dice. It’s, you know, a good entrepreneur are those who understand, just kind of like a pilot, you know, a pilot has a checklist, as you know, they know, if they didn’t want to take any risk, no, no planes would ever take off. They have a way of navigating risk. And then you have commercial pilots that do things all the time, you have under kind of like corporate folks, you know, they they have a regimen, there is a boundary, there is a checklist that you manage risk with. And then you have the entrepreneurs, they still have all the challenges of a regular pilot, all the risks that has to be managed. But they’re also have a cause there. It’s like a jet fighter pilots that go out. And they’re trying to accomplish something more and more than themselves, they have a mission, they have a cause. But they’re also being shot at all the time, they don’t have the luxury, of course, bread, that their cash flow is managed, and their finances are provided by somebody else, and they have a risk management department that they can play with things go wrong. They are on the front line, essentially. Yeah,


Yeah, that’s true. Now, you use the metaphor of a tsunami to characterize some of the innovations that are happening today, like, you know, the social media networks and internet. And so can you tell us a little bit about that?


Well, you know, tsunami is when I use that, originally, in the context on a TED talk that I was doing was around the social media, and how it has actually changed the direction of decisions, if you would, in the past. decision makers, leaders, corporates, if you would, the top leaders, whoever, whatever you want to call it would think about something. And then that thing would be tested in the market and forced upon people to accept or deny, which mostly, they had no choice but to accept. But now with this change, the power has shifted to the people. And it’s actually people who are deciding based on their tweets, or based on their Facebook interactions based on the way they operate. And this is even more now. observable, when you look at the millennial generation, who actually are not that, you know, loyal to brands, they say, you know, they believe that they can get more, and they deserve more, and they believe that they should, and they act on it. So that power has shifted. But you know, there’s another thing about tsunamis that that it may be appropriate to discuss with your, with your audience. And that is, when you’re building a company, there are three ways of looking at things, I call them the three waves there, they’re the waves that are the normal waves that, you know, we run our business, and every day, it needs, it needs an energy, those waves are the energy that drives us to do things and they’re constant, it’s the day to day shipping of the products or managing the day to day, but that needs to be there. And the leaders and the entrepreneurs are driving that energy. But then you have the tropical waves where your company needs to jump in a little way there are massive, they’re more massive forces, they may come from the market, they may come from where you need to be, it may be a new product, introduction, or so forth. And then there are tsunamis, which could be destructive, if somebody else generates them, like, what happens to you know, companies that were operating before iPhone came out with a tsunami that came out. But if you can create as an entrepreneur, those kind of tsunamis, then you are the one who really have that, that power, that that ability to shape an industry. So there’s three layers, if you would have up things that happens. They are indicative and they could be simultaneous, you have to run the business, you have to make sure that things are working. And and then you may have those other tropical and you know, and tsunami waves on top of it. But you can’t just say well, I’m an entrepreneur, I just want to create tsunamis, those would be destructive to you.


A very good insight Now, can you share some, obviously, you know, most people if if asked, they will like to create a tsunami? So can you tell us from your experience? What are some of the nuggets of wisdom you can share on what it takes to create this tsunami?


I have tried many times and and I’ve failed many times, but I’ve succeeded a few. So that’s the first thing. They just don’t happen. It’s not like if I have an idea as a founder, as a scientist, as as an entrepreneur, then boom, it’s just going to happen. There’s a few things. One is timing. For example, the companies I mentioned to you that failed in 2000 timeframe. Right now, you would say how it’s pretty prevalent, you know, it was about aggregating data, through internet, which wasn’t done in 2000. For some of our data scientists, folks that may sound like how could that be? Could that be, but that was the competitive knowledge was the company that we designed to do it, but it was too early, the bandwidth were too slow, the companies weren’t ready, the databases when they’re all these other things that are required just weren’t there. So timing is very critical in doing that. There’s, there’s the notion of what are called relevance and relevance has to do with is it relevant for our today, you know, if somebody would have come up with, you know, I don’t know, you probably young enough to know. And some of your audience may not remember, there was something called the Thomas book, right? The Thomas guide, where we, you know, when we wanted to find places, that was the thing, we look at it, and we go from page to page was pretty painful. But it got us there. Now. Now we have the Google and you know, first this, you know, navigation system came and it was great movement, and we had Google that we have our phones, and we had ways. And now even if they get me stuck in traffic, I’ll throw it out there. What is this nonsense? Why am I being stuck with expectations change. And as expectations change, those relevance , being relevant becomes critical. Now, when you’re creating a tsunami, those have to be sustainable, so that it doesn’t it’s not a it’s not a declining fad. It can sustain the time, so that the so that the audience, the customers can accept that and internalize it and become a become a part of it. You see, thousands of early stage companies that fail because they have an initial gap, and then boom, it dies. Because, you know, it just doesn’t have that stick to witness if you would for the longer.


Yeah, so from what I’m hearing, you know, you brought up so many good points of work. From what I’m hearing, they’re all sort of common on the sort of converge on this keen sense of observation of what is happening around the world, in your environment with people, what are they thinking? What are what, you know, what state of mind they are in? And what is resonating with them? Yeah,


the only thing that I think is important is the notion of staying real. That is, I’m not against having big, audacious goals. That’s there’s nothing wrong with it. But you know, a lot of times the distance between here and there is quite long way. And you know, I use the analogy of the caterpillar, my first book in terms of, you know, always evolving, a caterpillar doesn’t sleep one night, and then get up the next morning is a butterfly, there’s a process and the process is gooey, it’s messy. There’s a lot of stuff that happens, there’s a lot of danger, a lot of people can step out, you know, in business competition, you got innovation, you got a lot of stuff, you got people who quit IP that this compromises lot of stuff that happens. So it’s not just Okay, I see what is relevant around me, and then I’m there, it doesn’t happen that way. You know, you look at LinkedIn, and you think, oh, look at this 12-15 years before they became somebody, it wasn’t overnight. You know, if you look at all the great companies that didn’t didn’t happen overnight, and the expectation sometimes of entrepreneurs is this immediate satisfaction, you know, I want to get rich quick I Where is my money? Where is my you know, and that just in real life doesn’t work. Now. They’re already doing example that has happened. But it’s extremely lucky. It’s not, it’s not the norm. And I don’t think we should compare ourselves with with norm, we should compare ourselves with what is realistic. And that’s when I say you, we gotta stay real. We gotta stay with what you’ve achieved. There is a tomorrow there will be a goal. But we got to work at it hard work still pays.


Yeah. Now, it to other technologies that are coming up, which I in my mind, I consider them as as tsunamis, are machine learning AI and blockchain. What are your thoughts around that?


Well, I actually came back from China teaching a course around AI, and China and the investment, so venture capital, China and AI. So I’m a big believer in what it can do. I’m a big believer in the capacity and capability of the technologies that may be there. Let’s leave blockchain for a minute aside, I’ll come back to that. But today, the capacity of artificial intelligence is essentially not, it’s less than a mouse. It’s, we’re not there. So there’s a long way to go. And I hear a lot of people gonna say, Oh, the whole world is going to, you know, the machine mastery. And what do you think, you know, someday, 20 years from now You and I are going to report to our job and say, Hello, Master. Because you know, the intelligent machine is more intelligent than me. He knows all access to all databases, and good. So is the boss, I am the you know, I’m the worker, and guess what does he get paid more than I do? Does he get more vacation, and you know, all of that, things that goes with it. But I am a believer in human nature and our capacity to evolve, I think we have physically evolved. And AI is providing us mostly in an automated fashion to do take to expand our ability to process the mundane task of computing alternatives. And it would allow us to be more creative. Now. It is a choice by us to would want to do that go through that evolution. And along the way, there’s going to be jobs lost and changes and all that. And, you know, we’ve done that for many, many 10s of thousands of years. And I’m a believer that it would know. So that’s, that’s more about AI and machine learning is basically learning, you know, to feed the machine of how that works. Right now, one problem is this idea of machine learning, which learns from the past, now we’ve got deep learning and other things. But we have to be careful of not duplicating our path. And I think, you know, because machine has learned from the patterns of previous so this is where creativity comes in. And if there’s one place that I say, Hey, be careful, is not to kind of, if you would delegate our creativity to the machines, that’s where issues become prevalent on blockchain. It’s been around for a talk for a long time. I haven’t really seen any true. You know, the significant value all of it, I think, is just like any other thing in terms of controlling the distribution of inflammation, and money. You know, when we didn’t have credit cards, then when credit cards came out, we cannot control what your purchases and you know, so I think it’s a it’s not an innovation is an extension of the past, which is makes it different than AI.


Yeah, yeah, that’s, those are very good points. And I completely agree with them for sure. As you said, like, you know, we are adaptable species. So whatever comes our way, we generally always try to figure out and adapt to it. You know, that’s why we are the most dominant species here on this planet.


Yeah, but I just want to, you know, remind us all including myself, that it is a choice, you know, the choices for us to say, Okay, I want to be part of this evolutionary process, as opposed to staying on the sideline and saying, Oh, these machines are going to take over and pushing back and all that I see that in corporate life in a lot of places all the time, that this idea of sameness, the idea of the addiction that we have to the past, and it is a comfortable thing that we’ve been doing. What is this nonsense? And, you know, so they, it’s pulled back in terms of what can be accomplished? Which is, I think it’s to, to our disadvantage of the human race. Yeah.


Well, I mean, you always have two sides of the equation, right? Like, there’s a lot of innovation already happening, but there are a lot of people who are not, you know, very open to change. So slowly as it chips away, you know, people do see the value, and hopefully, you know, eventually everything sort of will come together. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. That’s, those are great points. Now, you, you talked about social media, and how it is giving back the power to the consumers, and people, but what about surveillance? And you know, all these, all these companies are invading our privacy? So is that is that sort of going in the opposite direction here?


Well, you know, there is a there’s a big argument, and I make, you know, some of your audience may not like what about to say, it said, you know, yes, I get it, that if governments control our privacy, and eventually we can become the victim of their, I get that, you know, that there would be a tyranny and all that sort of stuff. But, you know, if my accounts are clear, why am I afraid of somebody looking at it? Now? My point is that, okay, if you want to look at it, you gotta pay me. If it’s my data, it’s not the privacy that but it’s that little bit companies use my data to make money. And then I’m not the recipient. It’s like any other assets, you want to come use my use a room in my house. Okay, you’re welcome. You gotta pay the rent. Yeah. So there’s one one point or the other is, this is the danger that I think a lot of folks are ignoring. And this is, I told you, I was in China recently. And I just got back three days ago. When you look at the Chinese and what they’re doing in terms of the use of the data, I get it, they take pictures of people and its privacy issues, but at the same time, going back to your AI topic, artificial intelligence is entirely based on data. That is, when you say machine learning, it needs to learn from something. Yeah, they have unleashed the power of the data. So if you’re, if you want to build a building, you need concrete unit, right? It is it those things, if you want to need that you build an AI machine, you need data. And the more we push back, and we’re trying to control our data, we’re going to lose the race, because they’re not just getting ahead and little, the more data they get, the faster their machines are learning, the faster their machine or Lynn. So there is a trade off between what we can get and what we cannot achieve. And I think that we may at times push this idea of privacy isn’t too far. Now, security, the difference in security is if you come you hack my bank account, and you’re able to make money, then yes, there’s a problem. Yes, what if I had more control over you without the privacy, then I can eliminate that. The reason that you can do what you could do as hackers, because you are hiding behind this curtain of privacy. So it could be the reverse argument. You know, again, I’m not against privacy, I’m just for balancing and not going in one direction or another direction too far.


Very interesting. Now, we, we talked about China a couple of times, and there’s a lot of talk going about China. And you know, I completely see how they are making, you know, these these things a priority, like capturing data and advancements and in all these cutting edge technologies. So what do you think what I mean, you have a better perspective on things. Do you think that it’s actually China becoming a superpower of tomorrow and taking over us and other richer countries?


My my thinking is, whenever you you underestimate your opponent, you are doomed to lose. And I feel that we are under estimating United States, the power of what is coming, what they’re doing, how they’re doing it, how much money they’re spending on achieving it. You know, they have five year plans as part of it, they say we’re moving from labor economy, to the technology economy, what they’re doing is building the robots that they would come to Switzerland, America and Germany. And those would be the labor force that would be working in those companies alongside our labor. And all their labor is doing is building high level expensive machinery, and they’ve moved away from a labor economy. Now an opposite side, we’re concerned about, what do we do with the people in certain part of our country, which are running out of jobs, and it is true they are, it is a fact that, you know, in some parts of Detroit and Middle America, there is you know, they’ve had jobs and those jobs have been displaced. But as opposed to solving the problem, we’re under estimating the, you know, the opponent, and kind of, you know, dazzling ourselves with this illusion that we are great and forever, we will remain great. I believe that’s the same things that the Romans said when they before they fail. So I’ve been saying this a lot, hey, I’m not saying China is great. And I’m, you know, it’s my new Mecca that I’m bowing to, I was saying, we gotta wake up, we got to see what these guys are doing. And until the time that we entangle in our day today, conferences and conclusions and discussions about privacy or not privacy, do we have seven jobs in here until the days that we’re entangled with those things? Those guys are making progress. And every day, they’re making more progress.


Yeah, exactly. And, and not even in technology, like, you know, this silk New Silk Road project that they are doing, which is, which is a superhighway across continents. I mean, I mean, this kind of infrastructure is unheard of, like, you know, and they are conceiving that not just for five years, it’s it’ll be for next 50-100 years, right?


Absolutely. They’re they’re starting to control the ports across Europe, they’re starting to do things in Africa. I mean, if you look at the put the pieces together, sometimes what we’re sold on the media about, you know, selective sharing, and not truly exposing what’s going on is really I think misleading us and this misleading, is is like misleading the CEO of a company or the employees of a company that we’re great. Until we’re broke. We can we can accomplish we have great minds we have we have great capability in the United States. And as long as you know, we’re not bamboozled, and underestimate the competition. Great. And I’m afraid we’re doing a little bit of that.


Yeah. All right. Now, one of the other metaphors that you used, is that of an ocean in your podcast and talks. So can you comment on that? What what what is this ocean that you talk about?

Sure, sure. So there is a few kind of ideas, I call them the two B’s for an entrepreneur. One is that pilot idea that I was, you know, the risk taker, their pilots, their navigators. and other one is this idea of an ocean. An entrepreneur, cannot buy, sell, conceive, run, all of the companies are all of the things he do, he or she does by himself. That is, I’m not building a product to sell to myself, I need a customer, I need employees to help me, I need partners to provide me with the pieces of this thing, I need content, I need the supply chain, I need all that sort of stuff. So unless you want to produce itself, your own product, you have to live in an ecosystem. So I use the ocean. And I call it your ocean. As a as an analogy that says we need to operate as an entrepreneur in an ecosystem. Now you decide how big or small your ocean This is, that is not everybody is, you know, has the vision or the ability to be the Bill Gates or the Microsoft of the world where they have 17 million people operating in the ocean. We may have a donut shop, we may have a print shop, we may have a whatever our scope is. That is the way that’s the place where we operate. And it is how are we a provider to the people within that ocean? Excuse me, how are we? How are we a provider just like an ocean in that ecosystem provides? Where are we both calm. And at the same time, it could be very scary when it’s stormy, so our competition should be afraid of us. But at the same time, we have to be called cool and collected. There are certain characteristics of an ocean that is giving me this fluid is flexible, because we need to be flexible as as an entrepreneur, we can say this is my plan. And heck with the rest of the universe, we have to be able to evolve our plan, change our plan, adopt a plan in order to stay relevant. So all of that defines this idea of ocean. As you can see, I just like, I don’t know, maybe it’s my character, I love to talk in analogies, because I think it communicates in a different way. And I believe everybody, every entrepreneur, to for that matter, every person is very unique, and has a unique philosophy of operating and entrepreneurship. And the idea is not to have a how to guide, do this, do this and do this. But to have the methodology is the ideas to be spread in a way that you can then take them and make them your own. You know, if you look at the Steve Jobs of the words, Bill Gates, Richard Branson, and go all the way to Henry Ford, and, you know, and others, they’re all entrepreneurs, they’re all very successful, but they’re absolutely not the same. Each one of them is very unique. So good entrepreneurs, have the ability to take ideas, and see how it resonates with their own philosophy of operation, and adopt those that make sense. And that’s sort of how to, that’s an internal ization of a bunch of ideas that you put together, and you create your own tapestry. And that’s the uniqueness of each entrepreneur. That’s great.


Thank you so much for sharing that. Now. The theme of the show is bootstrapping. And you know, we we work with entrepreneurs, and we preach bootstrapping is one way to go. In fact, in some cases, it’s a better way to go. And you know, you obviously, you have been a venture capitalist. So you will have a very good contrast between these two approaches. What are your thoughts about bootstrapping, versus going with venture capital?

I have done I have done both as human multiple times. My first advice when I gave up to me is you don’t need me, and you shouldn’t get me or anybody else who sells you. If you can own 100% of your company, and you don’t have a guy pushing you all around. Because your agendas are different, you know, the agenda of an investor is to an exit because that’s the only way you would get his money back is not interested in profit, is not interested in your son taking over is not interested a lot of other things. He’s interested in pushing this 1.0 to an exit, get out, cash out, however it is, and he loves you until you perform and then it wouldn’t love you anywhere. Regardless of how lovable you are, he’s not he’s not married to your idea is married to the idea of an exit of selling. So my suggestion always is, if you can do it without do it without and in a lot of cases, you actually can do it without the question is, if you manage your appetite for money, if you could manage your greed, now, not some things you can’t if you try to be an Uber, and still lose a billion dollars every quarter, no, that cannot be done by a bootstrap it. But to me, that’s a stupid business model anyway. We’re going on to people, we’re doing another IPO getting some people’s money, and then losing that money. In order to have someday some time in the future, and the economics of it is just not clear. So there are some businesses that you just cannot do those kind of things. And those are businesses that are usually designed for the rapid growth, huge exits, because you’re paying, that’s how you get it you get as opposed to having a customer. Finance, you’re working capital, you’re having a venture capitalist finance or working capital, because guess what your business model is not proven, you still can’t do it. And it is not foreseeable future. So my advice is, do it an increment, build things that can sell now, that’s how you actually get better products. Because as people are consuming it, you would know that that works. If it doesn’t work, you have not spent all of your life savings to do it. Now, you need two things for any business, regardless of the business. In order for you to go through, create a value chain of activities and create value for customers, employees, whoever you are, there has to be value created for that ecosystem. And it’s not just customers, it’s not just I have the best product for my customer. But my employees are being paid 10 cents an hour, it does doesn’t work. So that has to be that value created for the partners who are running you go for the investors work for everybody in the in the game. So this definition of our, you know, our fascination with customers, we need to expand that the value as we deliver to all parties within the ecosystem. So my point is, in order for you to be able to make anything anything content, digital, non digital products, whatever it is, you have to have all that process and you have to create value, you need two things, you need a strategy and approach that makes you unique and differentiated. And you need money, you cannot start a business without money, whatever you want to build. Now, consider your time is money. If you are going out and doing something now you may value your time is $15 an hour, somebody else may value their thoughts $500 an hour. But whatever you value it, there is a value to it. There’s money that needs to be done, needs to be available. And there’s a strategy that needs ended, both of them are equally important. Now, I have entrepreneurs come to me and say well said, we know we need to raise $5 million. Okay, what do you have? Well, we have an app, we’ve tested it, we have this is a true story. By the way this happens like if you wish ago, we are three individuals. One of us is an engineer at Google. The other one is a consultant in retail resistance. Okay, so what do you have? We have an app, okay, as it’s been tested? No, no, I don’t want to explain what the what the app was. But it wasn’t that great of a proposition. But we need five minutes. I said, Why do you need five millions as well, we have families.


We want to quit our jobs. Well, the role of the wage gap is not to pay your family, you have your own family. So this illusion that somebody has been created, that I go get somebody else. And then you know, they come they give me money, and I pay for my family and it’s a job, then that’s a job, you’re looking for a job, you’re not looking to be an entrepreneur, you’re not looking for building a company, building a company has some consequences, which is you have to talk to your wife, your understanding she or he you have to talk to your husband, you have to be on the same page, there is pain along the way. Couldn’t it doesn’t need to be usually painful. You don’t need to sell your house and all that. But there is a pain. And that is a mutual pain. If you’re not ready to do that, then I wouldn’t suggest you jump in, you know, into the lake. Because, you know, it’s dangerous. It’s cold, and you know, you gotta be able to swim. So my point is, I’m absolutely 100% for bootstrapping. 100%. But there are some businesses that requires significant money to run. But even if you’re bootstrapping that means you have to put some money out. Yeah, but it actually forces you. What bootstrapping does, it forces you to be able to get to value faster. Exactly. Yeah. Because you have the pressure behind you. And you gotta get you gotta get something that is valuable to somebody to buy.

Of course. Yeah, exactly. So

That actually expedites the process is a way of getting to value for customers.

I completely agree. And that’s, that’s exactly why, you know, I started this journey, and I’m preaching this this method, because I’ve seen you know, how traditional businesses have been built by bootstrapping, what are the benefits? And I’ve also seen the startup to raise money too early, and what happens to them? So all right, so much for, for sharing your thoughts on that.

My pleasure, my pleasure. My pleasure. Thanks. It’s been enjoyable to be in and talk with you.


Awesome. This has been a very enlightening conversation. Thank you so much.

Links & Mentions From This Episode:


Website: http://mohasseb.com/

TetraNoodle consulting services: https://bootstraptechstartup.com

TetraNoodle professional training: https://courses.tetranoodle.com

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