056 | Attachment Theory for Partnership | Choosing Right Relationship for Success | With Gary Salyer

In this episode, I will be dialoguing with Dr. Gary Salyer. Dr. Gary D. Salyer is the creator of the Safe to Love Again™ and the Extraordinary Couples™ Retreats along with his various other programs. A former graduate professor, he is the author of the book, Safe to Love Again: How to Release the Pain of Past Relationships and Attract Your Soul Mate. Dr. Gary speaks across the United States as a nationally recognized expert in the field of transformational relationship coaching and attachment theory (the science of relationships). He offers his clients a unique blend of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), neuroscience and attachment theory. As one client said, “he re-sets your system for love in a science-based, heart delivered manner.” He introduces himself as a Master Transformational Relationship Coach, Speaker, Author and Retreat Leader.

Awesome. So just so that we get to know you, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself and your life journey? And how did you come to know so much about relationships and love?

Well, I didn’t start off. You know, it really started for me, my journey started at seven. And noticing all the divorce and how nobody felt loved. I decided that I was never going to get loved. I mean, I was never going to be divorced, like the rest. So when I went to college, I had two majors that were set psychology and religion saying, I’m going to make sure I don’t ever get a divorce. And my senior year, the professor calls me and we do a personality test, he gives me the results. He says no, by the way, you have a 90% chance of having a divorce? Well, I mean, just like, you know, and you know, you’re in don’t slip on that team over there. Right? Yeah, the fact the matter was, it’s it freaked me out so much, that I stayed a fifth year of college and got a third-degree in marriage and family relations. So imagine my surprise, when 12 years later, after doing all of that, my wife says I wanted a divorce. So you know, I double down, I do seven and a half years of therapy, do more reading and workshops, enhanced myself good to go. And then my second marriage falls apart. Wow, it was after that I did a few more years of therapy. And then I began to notice that my core style of picking and relating never changed. I was managing pain versus transforming what’s called a lifestyle. And that was when I said nobody should work this hard for this few results. And I said, if it’s the last thing I do, I’ll crack the code. If they can’t do it, I’ll do it for him. And I do it the rest of my life to find out what truly free writes the rules of love. So you’re not managing pain, but you’re actually creating.


Alright, so that’s, that’s awesome. Now, can you tell us a little bit about how this process works and what kind of transformation you can expect?

Okay, so the way this thing works is F between zero and three, everybody gets the six templates for love, I call them rights, okay. And these, this between zero and three, these rights are also which is important for your entrepreneurial crowd, they will get swapped out from love to other areas of life business, so they affect everything. So there’s a right to exist, when you feel cozy in your body and feel connected to yourself, there’s, you get a right to have your needs met, which means it’s okay to reach out for your needs and to take. There’s a right to separate and belong, which means I get to be me, I also get to be in a way I get to be supported, I get to have proper support in someone looking over me. And as a right to create your own experience where you know, somebody else is not the standard, you’re the standard and you’re comfortable, good and bad, strong and weak, does a right to have a voice to write to assert, as I call it, so that you can speak up for what you want. And it’s okay to have your wins and life and a right to love and be loved. Those six rights are what tells us that we can depend and be dependent upon and loving. That’s the ones that if we have all six, we pick good partners we create and we continue with great relationships, if any of them is missing, then we will pick we will only have the rights for certain rights and not others. And we will pick somebody who doesn’t give us those rights, we will create a relationship that does not give us our rights back. For instance, if you don’t have a right to have your needs met, you’ll find a taker and then you’ll be centered in your relationship. So those are things in and what’s really interesting most is all of them relate to the entrepreneurial. 


Would you like to hear what that means? 

Okay. When I began to notice was that these rights didn’t stay in a tidy little corner called love that, and I this is an interesting statistic. In 12 years, every woman entrepreneur who showed up got a better business, there have been zero percent exceptions, they worked on love and they got a better business. Cause if you think about it, a person who isn’t connected themselves can’t emotionally connect to others, as I talked about that, in my book safe to love again, if these people with a missing right to exist, they didn’t get that fully. They didn’t feel welcome with joy. Can’t welcome others between they will be terrible at client care. Yeah. If they don’t have a right to have their needs met, they don’t feel worthy, and worthy. People don’t change their mind. They’re always giving up freebies, you know, or they’re giving reduced rates and they wonder why they can’t grow a business. Yeah, if they don’t have a right to separate and belong. These are the people that will not reach out to be a support. When they get bigger, or they want to seek coaching. They’ll try to do it all by themselves. I wonder why they get hassled. And then they say screw or they stay small. Yeah, if they don’t have a right to create their experience. Yeah. Then, you know, branding is all about creating an experience for somebody else. Well, if you can’t create an experience for yourself, how can you create one for somebody else, these people are terrible at marketing and branding. If you remember right to assert Good luck trying to get on stage, these people have a hard time speaking their message, then if they don’t have a right to love and be loved, that be love comes in as the right to have a raving fan club, they simply won’t be able to accept praise. They’re the ones that give a great speech maybe. But as soon as they get a standing ovation, they walk off stage, or they just a raving fan club. They can’t scale. Yeah, so so true. It so what looks like love is also the business is also a success, it works out and in health to some other ways. So everything we’re talking about, every last one of these, these women got a better business, the one woman had didn’t have a right to have her needs met. She goes when I give all these freebies out. And she started charging her value. The women, I have four women had seven-figure businesses, and they all ended up missing right to separate and belong, which meant their boyfriends would probably on them. I see all men came in about the future six such as women, my staff, they all have staff because you can’t make a million bucks a year without it. They flake in the middle of launches, they’re not there when I need them. Is there any correlation between that because it feels just like my boyfriend, bingo Yahtzee. And so when they got better boyfriends, they all swapped out their stuff. And then they had their businesses. So there’s, yeah,


Yeah. So I mean, obviously, everything is so connected. And, you know, before we started the interview, we were talking about how people spin their wheels, and they ignore this personal part of their life and, you know, not realizing these things are so interconnected. And, you know, it’s a, it’s very fascinating that you start with, you know, realizing your own feelings, your own selves, and understanding what you are made of, is that right, like, so does this process, start with your own self-discovery?

I think it starts with own self-discovery. But if but, you know, the fact that I none of us discover ourselves in isolation. You know, yeah. You know, that’s kind of a misnomer. We, I mean, how many people have told us all, how many people have supported us both in this great thing that we call business, right podcast. You know, somebody said, well, that you’d look good on the podcast, you got better would do, right? We all need that. We asked. Some of it is health discovery. But it’s more and more just going back and doing the deep work, whatever argue in the book is your brain uses for feelings. To know when it’s loved. Those feelings are welcome to Joy, where the interest cherished and protected and empowered with choice, those feelings create these rights. But the problem is, and these if you’re given all four, you use them as reference feelings. Oh, do I feel worthy to go? This is a good relationship. Oh, do I feel empowered? Oh, good. The bug in the system is if you were given, unwelcome or unworthy, or cherished or disempowered, your brain will also use those as reference feelings. And you’ll pick people will make you feel unworthy. You’ll pick people who feel make you feel disempowered. And the trick to the deep work is to go to find out when the little one or maybe in a different in a past relationship, your brain got those feelings and to swap them out for the secure feelings. You’ve got to feel these feelings and then your brain goes about doing business very different. Who are the people pick other where the people were the people charge their value. Empower people don’t find dominate, as they find people who share influence, and power people know how to take the next step in business. Some part people always afraid, don’t they, you know, it’s all going to go wrong or something. So it’s always the feelings, right. And the deep work that you asked me about, is having some skills to be able to know how to get the brain safe, with welcomed or worthy or cherished and empowered. And it has to be safe, because, at one point, it wasn’t safe. So if you do that, miracles can happen.


Awesome. That’s great. So yeah, I mean, all the internal positive energy that comes from within you by being loved. And by having all these feelings, you know, coming to you from your loved ones that can go out there and multiply your business and give you the success you’re looking for. Is that right?

Absolutely. I had some friends, I have some friends who were pretty good business conscious. Right. And, you know, as you well know, you know, attendance has been decreasing for some years with live events. Yeah, online. So they do. That’s their online events. And they began to think, you know, why are we getting less and fewer people signups are high, but attendance is lower, lower and lower. And they were people were throwing this idea and that idea. And I said, and I said, so if people aren’t showing up, then they’re not feeling safe. In this relationship. I said, let’s look at this to the attachment. And I said, what are you doing to make these people feel welcomed and worthy, you know, I would leave cherished and part for the event. But what are you doing in between sign up? You know, Facebook ad and two months later? Go, bingo, they lost the initial feeling. So all they did was implement a couple of strategies to make them feel more welcomed. And they gave everybody I think it was a 20 minute coaching thing, any problem that they had in their business of free with some of their staff, so that before they can know their people feel worthy, welcome to them, where they and their attendance shot up by more than double, just paying attention to what makes people feel well, it was better, but and their offer went from around 46% to 80%. That event, knife last. So you know the brain, if it feels loved, is always buys more.


Nice. Alright, so your word you use this word attachment. So can you tell us a little bit about the theory of attachment?

Sure. Attachment theory is it’s really the science of how our brains are wired to love and be loved. It started in World War Two. You know, after the bombs, the bombings in London, there were a lot of orphaned children as you can imagine. John Bowlby was a British psychiatrist who worked in these bomb shelters. But I mean these orphanages, and some of them even though they were fed and clothed and warmed and had proper, quote, unquote, supervision, they were still dying. And nobody could figure out why are they dying, they’ve got food, water, and clothing, everything you supposedly need, except for one thing: Love. And Bowlby was bold enough to say they’re dying for lack of love. Now, he couldn’t use love, because the Floridians were running out of town at that in the 40s. So he said attachment to a sound scientific. But his wife after his death said he always net loved by attachment. So he recognized that children were dying because love isn’t, is at least as important as the rest. And after that, we began doing more and more science on what tells a brain to pick a good partner or not a good partner to create a loving relationship or not. And they found there were three types of love styles, attachment styles, secure people who love and give love and feel comfortable being loved and loving, anxious, people who are afraid love are always going to go away. When did you text? You know, why you didn’t say you love me, you know, and they tend to drive love away. And then those the ones that say, well, love was never there for me. And they become dismissive, though, the ones that won’t show up. They’re dismissive emotionally, and they won’t commit those three types. And we found the track and the key to my work is finding out why that person’s brain when anxious or avoiding, and giving them back, a secure lifestyle.


Nice, very cool. Alright, so now let’s talk about your book. Safe to love again, you have a chapter dedicated to exploring the idea of love, as an operating system. Know, how does that work?

You remember what I said earlier, about how the love swaps out of the brain swap out? Yeah, chapter I talked about Daniel, right. And Daniel was always saying that you know, that love, is either this big thing about, you know, you know, when do I use always getting left behind, so to speak, right? He didn’t feel like he was getting in, the word he used for me was cut off, he was big in IT. And he was talking about, I’m always cut off any cut off in traffic, I’m cut off from promotions that work, I’m cut off from, you know, other opportunities. And then he said, I’m even being cut off from sex and my relationship early on, and he came in working because he is his relationship was lackluster. And what we found out was, when he was little, there was a line at school that said, oh, there were 10 GIFs. And he was number 10, in line to get it. And a teacher said, yo, we have to let somebody in here. And he was the one that got cut off. And it became like a template, he said is like fun. So when we worked on, on him not having to be cut off, right? The next thing that he could reach out and ask for his needs, instead of being cut off, he could assert his trip. Now, this is my place of mine. I deserve this. First off, he found out his wife actually wanted to make love more. She just thought he wasn’t interested. Right. And secondly, I said, so have you ever asked for a race of working goes? No, no, they just cut me off. He asked the guy said the guy agree to it. Right? So this is that whole template. I didn’t learn it from school, but in effect is loving relationships. It also affected in this instance, his professional life. Know the feeling of cut off, I don’t have a right to have my needs met, I don’t have a right to assert was all over his life. That’s why I say love is the operating system.


That’s cool. That’s very cool. Very deep. Alright, so now let’s talk about your entrepreneurial journey. So you know, you were a professor, and you turned into an entrepreneur? When did that happen? And was there any turning point in your life which prompted you to take this leap?

Oh, yeah. Well, there’s, I think there are two sides to this, to be honest with, you know, one of my really good friends from that time, she’s been a really good friend for 28 years, who read my recent book, it’s written very warm and loving and very simple. She gets it, she goes, where is intellectual Gary, she is Gary. I don’t read Mr. Intellectual, what happened to the intellectual I said, well, electoral Gary got smart and wrote a book that would sell. And he wrote it for everybody. Laugh, but there was a point where I got tired of showing up as Mr. Wrong or choosing Ms. Wrong in my relationships. And what’s really interesting is, I was doing some training with a young man who had some rule, wonderful entrepreneurial skills, and his father being a CEO. And he would, and I was always giving this kid my notes, Ph.D. quality notes on NLP. And one day, he says, I’m doing this event. And I said, this is, I think, that’s interesting. I think this kid’s gonna need help. I’m always explaining things to right. And I show up and I see 250 people at this event. These kids definitely need help. He was about 28. Right. And then I notice quite a few you have my notes up there. On the PowerPoint. Yeah. Then I noticed that he made an offer, and I just started counting numbers. I said this. He’s made like 250 $ 200,000 this weekend. Nice. And that was when I said, Wow, that’s more that I make in a year. And, and I was at the place where I wanted to play a bigger game. I had a graduate student write me an email, and say dear Dr. Sawyer, why is a brilliant man like you teaching only to 10 to 12 students at a time. If you ever want to play a bigger game, give me a call. She was marketing, Head of Marketing at Charles Schwab. And between those two things, I realized that I want I wanted to do loving relationships. And I could play a bigger game with love and success. And I wanted to have impact and influence and running another book, but 993 footnotes were not going to be it. So between all those little things happening in about 18 months, some part of my soul said let’s go play a bigger game. And it’s been a learning curve. I’ve had to learn what a businessman is, it’s different than being a smart boy. You know, which is what I paid for before. And I’ve learned to be to know that it’s more important to inspire than just to inform that inspiration tops information any day of the week, I’ve learned to be more heart-centered. And I love what I do. I absolutely love what I do.


That’s great. That’s an awesome story. And you said that you know, you had to learn how to be a businessman. Now, what some of those learnings were? And did you have to unlearn anything that you had picked up in your past? You know, past career?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I was, I know, the first five years was kind of a struggle, right? Because I was, I grew up in a home, where I had a borderline Mother, you didn’t want to take who was violent, like violent with knives, right? And you didn’t want to take a lot of risks. And family. So I became the very risk of waiting. and I had a really good friend who told me, hey, call me up when I choose an organizational psychologist. And she goes, I want to talk to you about your business. And I’m really tired, tonight’s Friday night. And she goes, Hey, I’m $500 an hour, I, you know, I’m giving this to you for free. Okay, you know, and she goes, you’re not going to build your business password, as I said, Oh, that’s and she goes because you won’t take a risk. Because you don’t either you don’t believe in yourself, you don’t believe in what you’re doing. So which is it?  You want to take a risk, choose, if you’re going to build a business, we have to take a risk. And it really landed with me. And that was when I took my first risk with a high-end business coach. And it was worth everything. I mean, suddenly, he’s calling me out. And I’m learning what I need to I had been, I had that missing, right to separate involved, you know, I had way more right to separate and do it all by myself and to belong. And you can do that as a scholar and an intellectual but not as an entrepreneur. Connection matters more than anything to an entrepreneur. And so for me, I think the big thing was learning that I had to have the support and I needed to take some decent risk. And with proper support and better connections, connection matters more than anything be able to take in coaching. I think that was the first really big change for me as an entrepreneur, reaching out for support, and learning to take a decent risk.


Yeah, yeah, that’s so true. I mean, without risk, you can’t even you know, as you say, like, there, there is no pain, no gain. So if you don’t take any risk, you know, you can, it’s going to be very tough to get any kind of success in entrepreneurship. So did you? Oh, yeah. Go ahead, please.

I don’t think you know, sometimes you get clients, like, I’ll get women clients, but But what if the guy’s a player? What if he cheats on me? Well, you know, there’s, you know, there, there is a risk out there. But you know, what, if you could get the coaching so that you could spot that at a time? You know, a certain amount of risk comes with life. That’s all there is, we’re going to sit in the captain’s chair risk as a part of the game.


Yeah, sure. Now, apart from, you know, this important lesson of taking the risk, did you make any mistakes as well?


Oh, you know, yeah, I think the biggest mistake was not investing. And I did some business coaching classes. But I think the biggest mistake was not investing in the personal support, I needed. All these things here, and there, maybe a VA, I heard him there, you know, but the biggest mistake was not doing that. And I think the other big mistake was, there was a part of me, that had to learn to see my own value to trust in my own value. You know, I see. All right, so, so I think trusting in your value, being able to take a risk. And to know that, you know, it’s okay to play the biggest game of your life. Do you know?


Yeah, for sure. Do you have any advice for first-time entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs who are just starting off and maybe struggling a little bit?

Yeah, I’d say, believe in your value. And that doesn’t mean, you know, if you’re starting off, I know, there are a lot of young coaches who start off and they maybe don’t have all the certifications, you know, believe in the value provided and get more value, you give and get more training, you know, I get that. But sometimes, it may just be, you need more business coaching, but believe in your value, if you are called to do a certain work, then, you know, I’ve always loved the one statement, you know, that the universe doesn’t call the prepared, it prepares the called, you know, I forgot what his name is. Michael Beckwith said that, and believe in yourself, if this is, and if you are a person of passion and purpose and this, you know, then you know, you can build it. If that passion isn’t there, then something’s wrong. No, that’s a different animal. 

That’s, that’s great advice. I mean, it comes down to, you know, again, the same team, knowing yourself and, and looking at what, what are your strengths and weaknesses and addressing them appropriately? Right.

And you’re in when you think of resources. We live on a cosmic ‘we’, the universe wants to back you, I am born, when you’re playing a higher game with the universe, the universe says, Hey, they’re playing a game of consciousness. Let’s go get them. So like when I wrote this book, everything has shown up as if there’s, I have more resource. I truly believe I live in a cosmic way that’s got my back. I remember writing the manuscript took me a year to write a manuscript couldn’t I looked up to the universe, and I had to pay $25,000 to be mentored by a New York Times bestselling writer how to write a New York Times bestselling book, gonna take, you know, I learned that. And I remember looking up to the universe and saying, you know, if, if you don’t show me how to get a bigger region, leveraging, and how to play a bigger game, we got a nice expensive PDF here. Six days later, hey, house radio calls, and says, would you like to be on a show with 2.4 me. And now that’s not an accident. And I have learned to trust that if I play the biggest game, the universe will, will find me. And because if you reach for the stars, the stars reach back. That’s what I have found. So it’s okay to reach for the stars because the stars want to reach back. It’s in a mirror universe. And if we can, if we put out really positive energy, it comes back. So stop reaching out to the universe with little Alligator, I’m not sure they’re going to support it. I’m not sure they’re going to do this reach out fully. And what does the universe do? It reaches back fully as well. So yeah, there is don’t play any short games with elegant arms reach out and let the universe support you.


Cool. That’s very well said, thank you so much for these deep thoughts. And I’m sure they provide a lot of value, and it’s going to change many people’s lives, you know, if they listen to this, so thanks a lot for sharing this.

Well, we’re working on the same team friend.


Yeah, yeah. So now before I let you go, can you tell the audience how they can reach to reach out and you know, get in touch with you? What kind of services you can offer to them?

Sure. Everything is at my website, www garysalyer.com You know, the book is on Amazon safe to love again, there’s a link on there. You can also sign up for love notes really cool setup, I get weekly, inspirational a relationship notes there, little short things. And there’s you got short videos. And if you need to contact me about you know, what are these missing rights? Or what can I do to play a bigger better game of love or success, then you just reach out I have something called a love nap session, it’s an hour with me. Have you reach out you can set up there’s a way to contact me as in all websites these days. So just go to my website, the books, their ways to contact me a beautiful video series that you can sign up for free two to four minutes so you can get them while you’re drinking coffee and get inspired.


So thank you so much. Thanks again, for being with us and sharing all your knowledge and wisdom. Thank you.

Thank you. It’s been an honor


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