053 | Market Your Valuable Ideas | How to turn Thoughts into Value | With Sky Cassidy

Welcome to this episode of Bootstrapping Your Dreams. I’m Manuj Aggarwal and I will be dialoguing with Sky Cassidy. Sky is the CEO of Mountain Top Data that is a company driven to help marketers spend more time marketing and less time digging through data. MountainTop Data provides data cleaning and verification services, targeted B2B marketing list, Data Appending, and email campaign delivery management services. Sky is also the co-host of “If you Market” Podcast Show. The podcast explores B2B marketing ideas and tactics with industry experts. Please, welcome, Sky Cassidy to “Bootstrapping Your Dreams” Show.


So welcome Sky. We are excited to have you and learn all about b2b marketing today. 

Yeah, man, thank you for having me on. I’m really happy to be here. It’s nice. I do a lot of our podcasts and it’s, it’s nice to be on someone else’s and be able to have the guest hat on. 


Yeah, for sure. Alright, so tell us about your company and your podcast and how do you help b2b marketing? People, who want to execute on b2b marketing?

Yes, let me get the self-promotion of my company out of the way here first. It’s not basically we provide data and data that’s kind of a loaded word. We provide lists as a little bit of stigma the word list so we try not to use that but to keep things clear, we provide lists and lists related services

For b2b marketers, so we’ve got the company in contact, target information, email addresses, phone numbers, physical addresses, and all the targeting and, and that kind of information people would want to run their marketing campaigns. And then we also provide a pending and data cleaning services like email verification, phone verification, address verification, General data cleaning for form fills gone wrong and that kind of stuff.

And a couple of other peripheral services, I guess, data management, data migration, and we do some email campaign management. We really focused that for clients who are using our list but don’t want to manage their own campaigns. 


Yeah. All right. So how is b2b marketing different than b2c? You know, traditionally we look at advertising and those type of things, but they’re more focused on b2c. So how do you differentiate b2b marketing? 

Yeah, I think the marketing itself as not a huge difference other than who your target is. But then when you get down into a lot of the techniques and stuff, they’re the same because ultimately, you are marketing to people still. So you’re still just doing a person to person marketing. The big difference in our businesses, we deal with the data. And we only have business data, and we only have experience in business data. So the big difference is we just don’t have the other products. You know, we’re, we store the shelves, what sells one brand and not the other, and we just don’t have the other brand. That’s not what we do. And that’s just because we’ve never had the expertise in the consumer data world. And I see that and it is very, very different. But I think, actually carrying out marketing campaigns, you know, you don’t do a lot of being to be Super Bowl commercials. It’s a lot more person to person, maybe because it’s just a smaller world. You’re not dealing with millions and 10s of millions of records and potential clients and whatnot. It’s usually a larger product price tag, and many fewer clients and then in the b2c world. 


Okay, great. And now, you know, with the rise in sort of privacy concerns and things of that nature and there are laws against spam. How do you? Or how does one go about sort of making sure that we don’t spam our prospects and we comply with the law? When we are, you know, sending out these emails through email lists or what have you?

Yeah, the privacy laws are always a bit messy, typically, those around the consumer side, they do spill over into the business side. I mean, back in the day, we had the Do Not Call list and people said to us, like Oh, are these screens against the Do Not Call us me. So this is, this is business data. There is no business do not call list. You have to be able to call businesses that businesses don’t put themselves on a Do not call list like sorry, that’s not really up to you. Actually. You have a title in a company and people are going to reach out to you and if you tell your boss, I need to have nobody able to call me, well, either disconnects your phone or you’re going to get calls. That’s how business is done. So there’s no business do not call us when it comes to the spam issue. That’s a weird, sticky area.

We say, you know, the most powerful list you’re going to have is your own newsletter list that you get through all the activities you do. People actually sign up to hear from you, your clients and prospects list. Other than that, though, if you want to get new business in the business world you have to be able to reach out to companies that don’t know you. And it’s why in the US anyway, the law we have here, it’s different in some other countries now, but we had the first law, I think around email marketing, and it’s called the can-spam act, because, on one hand, the politicians really wanted to come out and say that, you know, Spam is bad. And we have to stop this because they were getting a lot of pressure from very large ISP that said, Wow, this is costing us a lot of money to process all the emails through our servers, the users, I don’t think that much that’s an easy filter and you can do in any email client that prevents any mail spam from getting through to you. But the ISP is really wanted to try to get the government to prevent it from going through their servers because AOL and you know, Yahoo and, and Hotmail they were the ones who had to maintain all these hundreds of millions of emails that were, you know, mostly garbage. Now included in that is most of these emails are garbage and should never happen. So I don’t want to say like I’m pro spam or something here and come out like that. But anyway, it’s called the Can-Spam Act, because on one hand, they said, people need to be able to reach out to people they don’t know to try to sell the product. That’s kind of what capitalism is how it works. If you take that away, then how are you going to sell a new product and people can only go to the market is this, you know, it is the market any way you can communicate with people over the phone, email, physical mail, they’re all part of the market. So they didn’t want to interrupt that capability of businesses to do business. But they also didn’t want to put a rubber stamp on spam. They called it the Can-Spam Act, which means yes, you can send people unsolicited bulk email, which is what we call spam. So sorry about the little history lesson, kind of my view of history. 


That’s awesome. Yeah, I mean, most people didn’t know about this. This is great. 

Where that ends up coming around, though is your own opt-in email list is going to be the most powerful email data you have. But you want to reach out to people who don’t already know your company is or people who don’t aren’t already clients of yours. And to get new business your salespeople all to want new leads of people they aren’t already talking to emails a really efficient way to do that. But back in the day when you know marketing first started coming around for businesses, there were no real techniques on it. It just got any email you can and send your message to them. And I remember the philosophy back then, that we heard all the time was, you know, if you send out 100,000 emails, yeah.

Like, who are you targeting? You’re targeting people with email addresses, but your messages about a certain product. And the people who are interested in that product will respond to, people who aren’t won’t. And the filtering that was the targeting was the people who aren’t interested in won’t respond. So you don’t need to worry about them because it’s free to send an email. So don’t worry about it. That techniques kind of burned emails for business for the consumer for everybody, because you’re spamming them. Sorry, I don’t know. I’m not sure if you can swear here. But now I’m not sure that’s a swear word. But you’re spamming massive amounts of people. And there’s got to be questioned to that. I think that came around and people now have a much better approach to it. When they realize oh, we need to have a really relevant message. And all the largest companies send unsolicited bulk email. Most the smaller companies do as well, pretty much everybody who’s trying to send some version of unsolicited bulk email. Now everybody hates spam but they do select

Send the unsolicited bulk email. The key is making sure your list is actually targeted people and you have accurate information there, and the people who might be interested in your product. So if you sell HR software, and you’re sending it out, every CEO or one that we see a lot of it’s just every person everywhere. Hey, can you tell me who’s in charge of your HR software I’d like you’re now you’re spamming? See, if you’re sending it out to HR directors or the right types of companies, the right title, and target down the right company size up could actually be interested in your product. So now you even have an intent data that they might be looking at this kind of thing, looking at competitors’ products, something like that. Now, the people who are getting it saying why this has nothing to do with me, why am I receiving this? I’m an engineer and an oil field. I’m getting emails every day from this company about HR software, and they just want to choke somebody that’s, that’s where the big problem is. So that’s, that’s my opinion on email verification. 


Thank you so much. Because, yeah, there’s a lot of confusion around this and most people don’t know, you know, when they are sending too much or some people don’t even try because they are afraid that they may get flagged as a spammer.

Yeah, well and there are places not to try to, I guess I’ll put out a public service announcement here. If you’re using an email delivery service like Constant Contact, MailChimp, par dot, Mark Hedo and their terms of service, say, Do not send unsolicited bulk email or just unsolicited email. Your best move is to listen to them. And don’t do that. Because if they catch you doing it, and they’re really good at that,

You know, they’ll block your account. It’s just it’s not good. There are other services out there that allow you to do that kind of marketing use. Use the right tool for the right job. Basically, email marketing is great. But if you don’t do it, right, you can cause a lot of problems and you can be the bad guy and you don’t want to be the bad guy. When just

Knowing what you’re doing, you can be the good guy and succeed. That’s perfectly allowed. So, yeah, be careful, be the good guy and succeed. Can I throw a plug out here? Yeah, sure, for sure. We have a PDF on the mountaintop datacom website 10 keys to you know, marketing, I’d say if you’re curious about how to go about it, go check that out. It’s for going on, it’s sending out the unsolicited email campaigns, we kind of give some tips on what to do what not to do. Number one is can-spam compliant? See, look at that and make sure you’re following it? Sure.

I’ll add the link to the show notes so that people can easily get to it.


Alright, so the next one is, you know, I’ve heard you say on one of your podcasts, the best marketers come from sales. So tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, I think a lot of marketers come from sales. And I think the best ones come from sales in general. Because of the marketers that don’t have a sales experience, it’s they just, you know, it’s the boss that doesn’t know how to or can do the job of their employee, you really want the person who knows your job because they know what you’re experiencing, they know how to work with you. Marketers that have been in sales ultimately, in many companies. And in our company, we see marketing as working for sales. Some companies because the product structure it’s different than you know, the sales are working for marketing or there. However it is, but in our company, marketing works for sales.

And if you have no sales experience, that’s when you get marketing sales not working well together. That’s when you get you to know, dumb fighting and just when things don’t work, marketing says Oh, sales is lazy. They don’t want to follow up on the leads and sales leads. The leads are crap marketing doesn’t know what they’re doing. But when you have people marketing has been in sales, you just don’t see that as much, because they know the truth. They know how sales actually work.

So they can call them out on their Bs and hold them accountable. And they know how it actually works. So they’re not going to call them out when they’re wrong just to cover their own ass. 


Yeah, for sure. Alright, so now let’s move on to the topic of entrepreneurship. And I know you have some opinions about that. So when entrepreneurs, you know, they come up with an idea to launch a startup, what are some of the first steps you recommend they should take to, to validate their idea and to execute that idea.

Um, if you’re really early on, like, I have the idea, they run by as many people as possible. Don’t be afraid somebody’s going to steal your idea. It’s not nearly as good as you think. And if it is really that good, other people are already doing it. And you’d really like to find that out and maybe say, Oh, I could be a couple of years ahead. If I, you know, learn about these people. I don’t know how many ideas I’ve had and done some groundwork on back in the day. And then when I start talking to people, I’m like, okay, we I think I can talk to these guys about how they say, oh, you mean like x, y, z? And like, I did some research, I didn’t find that company where they do exactly what you’re describing. That’s what they do. Yeah, this is awesome. And say, Oh, I guess I didn’t do my research. Good enough. It already exists. And I was kind of hoping you’re planning on a novelty aspect for success. So share your idea with other people. Don’t be afraid to do that I say is the number one thing, because nine out of 10 your ideas you can find out really quickly, you’re going to waste your time. And then maybe you’ll find that one idea that can work a lot faster. 


Yeah, I’ve heard you use this term called don’t fall in love at first sight. So is that something that you preach to entrepreneurs as well about?

Yeah, a lot of entrepreneurs fall in love with the sexy aspect of being an entrepreneur. They’re like they want to Silicon Valley and the cool thing and I got this idea that’s going to conquer the world. And the idea sounds sexy. So they said like this is, it’s so cool, I’m going to be so cool. And this is just going to take off. And I had one of these early on. And I was like that, like this awesome, totally going to be famous and rich and so you don’t really pay attention to the nuts and bolts of it. And the reasons why, when you look at it really close, or when somebody like an investor were to look at it, and they don’t talk to you for some reason. It’s because they saw something in it. That’s just fatal. They looked at and they said, Oh that sounds sexy but here are 10 reasons why it’s going to die. And you don’t even you don’t you have no idea and I’m not going to waste their time to tell you. And if they do, you probably do like yours. You’re old and an idiot so I’m not going to listen to you know, they’re right. Your Business has so many fatal flaws in it. We have this one idea that sounds so sexy to you, that you won’t let go of it. So you’re going to pour your life into this thing that’s a guaranteed flop. Yeah, it doesn’t mean every cool idea is a guaranteed flop but you just have to open it up and really look at and say, ‘Oh yeah, here’s why this isn’t going to work.’ Unless I know people who can give me a couple hundred million dollars to get this off the ground in work just as its own little Ponzi scheme where I keep getting funding because it is sexy and cool, unless you have that angle, your idea, your product, your service, whatever it is, needs to actually solve a problem that people give a shit about. Otherwise, good luck selling it. And if it’s not easy to sell, it’s not a startup, like if you’re going to make a sandwich shop is make a sandwich shop. That’s great. Yeah, go out hard work. People buy sandwiches, you can feel the need of they need food. But if you have a novel new idea, and you know that is what is going to make it work, not the hard work part or something like that. Then you need to make sure it doesn’t have some fatal flaw and that people actually want it. Like you know, people want sandwiches that business models been proven. You have no idea if they want the widget or the cool thing or whatever it is that you’re putting out. You think they want it but, see if they’ll actually buy it then you find out.


So in other words, what you’re saying is you should start marketing your idea on day one, even if it’s not built, is that correct? 

There is it’s not my idea by any means, but there’s the Lean Startup principle. Some people take it too far these days. But yeah, I think that’s a really good idea. Done right. You know if you can, rather than making a car, if you can, I’d say, fake it, but if you can put out ads to see if people want to actually sign up to be one of the first people to get this car not and see if there’s a response before you sink a fortune into a plan you know, plants and plans and building all this stuff and engineering it. You can potentially find a lot of things out right off the bat, you know, your sexy idea. Make a website landing page and then spend your first thousand dollars on marketing to drive people there. And you have your phone and see if people fill it out and then follow up with them and you know, work for the sale. And if people buy it, you know, I think in the Lean Startup book I read a long time ago, I remember it talking about, you know, so you want to sell t-shirts don’t make 100,000 t-shirts or 1000 or 100 shirts, even. You just you put the ad up and says, here’s the shirt, we have this, if you want to buy it, you put it out there. You see if people say yeah, if they buy the shirt, then you have it printed up. Or then you say, well, maybe I need to actually do this and print it up. And you just tell them sorry, we’re out of stock. And then you can come back and fill it in. But when nobody comes to buy it, you say Oh, a good thing. I didn’t have 1000 we’ve made because I was so I thought it was such a witty idea what I wanted to put on the shirt. Yeah, it’s amazing. So yeah, there is that principle that works for a lot of stuff to do that when you can.


Definitely yeah, that’s excellent advice for sure. A lot of people read about it, but they don’t actually do it that way just because as you put it, they fall in love with the idea. So, you know, these frameworks are available for you to use. And it’s a, it’s a good idea to actually look into these and implement them before you go out there and waste a lot of time and resources. 

If you’re going to make some software and servicing online a website, and you’re not the developer yourself, if you still do that, but especially if you’re paying somebody to do the work for you, well that’s a whole another mistake. But if you’re paying somebody to make something, test it first it’s a lot cheaper than making this thing and finding out that you were off target. You need to change your direction a bit. Yeah, called pivot, you need to pivot some. And then that’s just depressing. You can only do that so many times.


Yeah, yeah. Alright, so now let’s talk about another concept that I’ve heard you discuss, which demand generation. So tell us a little bit about that. And how do you generate this demand?

Yeah, demand generation is, I mean, that’s kind of the thing if you can generate demand, then you can probably be successful and if you can’t, then you won’t. The name of our podcast is if you market and that came from the ‘if you build it they will come you know the dreams’ quote, and I was for years and years before I was even into marketing in the marketing business that quotes always upset me. Because I just thought it’s wrong. There’s so many of these are these phrases we get locked into because some movie put them out there and it becomes part of the culture, but it’s not true. And I feel like that’s damaging and that’s one of those ones are like ‘No, none of that happens in that movie.’ There’s some point in the movie where you draw the line you say everything after this is this guy’s feverish dream of what happened? Everything before his may be real. He took all his money and he wasted it all making a ball field that nobody could even see without, on some remote road, nobody ever found out about it. There’s no magic where they’re going to show up. If you believe in the field of dreams and you want to be an entrepreneur, go get a job at Starbucks. Instead, you’ll save yourself a lot of like pain, suffering wasted money, because that’s just not how the world works. There is no magic people don’t show up at your business and say, ‘Wow, can I give you my money?’ Like, I just heard a whisper that told me to drive out to the middle of nowhere and give some guy in a cornfield, my money’s insane person. I wanted to make feel the dreams of where it shows them in this insane asylum. And they’re just talking to him. And it’s going back over what really happened versus what happened in his head, which is what they made in the movie. None of that happens if you build it. You like you just become a crazy person who lost all their money, you have to market it and our tagline is you have to market the shit out of it. The only way anybody shows up at some weird baseball field is that guy send out flyers everywhere and he advertises the crap out and then he finds still, nobody cares. Nobody’s going to drive out there for no reason. So he’s got to try to rent it ball fields are like local Little League teams and stuff. Guys going to struggle and around struggling, you know, his wife’s gonna leave him because he lost all the money in the cornfield from not planting corn that makes it a ball field. And he ends up you know, he ends up in a sanitized and that’s where he ends up because he didn’t market it properly. And he didn’t get the demand generation. If he, you know, reached out to local ball teams first and said, ‘Hey, do you need another field? I want to build one. And they came back and said, ‘Yeah, we will rent out your field.’ And then he made it. Maybe he knew and make a couple of bucks and be happy and have his fantasy? Yes, the way that plays out is you don’t have the demand generation. You can’t figure out who to market to. Is it the individual is it Hey, there are some tourists who come through this area. And they need a site in between the world’s biggest quality wine which is 100 miles that way. And then 100 miles the other way, you know you have the world’s biggest pair of tweezers. And if I can put some football field in between here and have some marketing spin all these tourists will stop by, okay, maybe you got you to have to find out. How is your product going to be sold and to whom? And there’s a lot of different markets, they can sell that same ball field too. But you got to sell it to somebody. And it’s not something mystic. Nobody’s going to show up. There’s a Roy Rogers park here in LA. And I used to love quotes. And remember a quote book and it was a quote from Roy Rogers and early on in my life. I actually believe this quote, and it was something to the tune of ‘if companies spent half the money they spend on marketing, I’m making a quality product, they wouldn’t need to market it.’ And I thought, yeah, these corporations man, they’re just they’re doing all this marketing stuff. And they’re the bad guys and if they just make a quality product, you wouldn’t have that problem. Yeah, you do need to make a quality product but there is no you don’t need to market it. It doesn’t. That doesn’t work. I don’t know I defy somebody to give me a product. It just caught on with no marketing. It’s the overnight success you think it caught on with no marketing, you know, all the Beatles they just became so No, there’s a decade of really hard work and getting nowhere before that all these products that you think are an overnight success somebody’s busted their ass for a long time marketing all over the place trying to find the fit. And then it happened and people just showed up like, No, no, you have to the demand generation is kind of everything. You can’t generate demand. You don’t have a product, you got a ball field in the middle, in the middle of a cornfield that nobody knows about. 


So yeah, yeah. No, I completely agree. Like, you know, I was reading an interview from the inventor of Pokemon Go and he said it was an overnight success, which took him 20 years to build because he tried so many other things and, you know, finally got a perfect fit. But that doesn’t mean he didn’t have to market it. He had to work on all those other ideas and find the one that has his ideas to get to that level.

Impossibly, just keep working at it until the time was right. Until, until something was going to click, you know, if you made the people who are ahead of their time, like, Oh, this guy was just ahead of his time, let’s just as bad as having a bad idea. All it means is you’re going to fail. If you have a great idea, and you’re like, Man, this idea is going to work in 20. Wait 20 years that? Yeah, you know, Da Vinci can’t take a helicopter. We don’t have the materials that allow that yet. So being ahead of your time, like making a sketch and say, wouldn’t this be cool? And write a science fiction book, but don’t try to make your product that’s ahead of its time? 


Yeah. So we talked about demand generation. What about lead generation? Is it the same thing? Is it different how does it fit into the whole puzzle?

Easy answer, yes. Same thing. Okay. I know in some businesses, it’s different and there are nuances and stuff like that demand generation lead generation, but yeah, you know, maybe you could say there are some fine nuances, but people can Google that I’m not that sophisticated enough marketer to get into that and get it right or so. 


Sure. So and, you know, recently there’s a new trend that is catching fire, especially with soul openers and sort of young entrepreneurs. This is about personal branding. So what do you think about that? How important is that?

Doesn’t matter at all? Don’t bother. I’m on this podcast is I think part of personal branding, right PR company is doing a lot more of this. With me, yeah, it’s important. The brand is really important for some products more than others. If you have a product that’s truly unique, that you have something patented or whatnot that other people just can’t do, or you have a source for a product that nobody else can have whatever it is, then maybe you don’t need a brand as much, but more and more the brand is just. This man was making a huge comeback. That’s how so many things are sold in the b2b space now, I think it’s been that way for a long time and consumer markets. Once something’s a commodity, the really the only thing you have to differentiate between one product and another is the brand. Like, why is this product selling like crazy for so much more than this, they’re the same. They’re made the same factory, they just get a bit different label put on them. It’s the brand, you develop a brand and that very frequently nowadays, especially with all the social media, like the technology enables it so much more. You don’t have to have a PR agency getting you write-ups in the New York Times or something like that to build your own brand, you go on social media and you can build your own brand. You make content with yourself, you go on podcasts, and you can build your own brand. Now you have that something to say. So, you know there are people out there who have a much better they go into the same podcast have the same interview, and they’re going to get a lot more out of it than I am because

They have more important, better stuff to say than I do. And there are people who couldn’t bother going on at all because they got nothing to say, you know, creating content and it sucks. It doesn’t actually do you any good. So you can make your personal brand but I see a lot of videos on YouTube now. I’ve talked about it in my podcast, and I’ll just call them out here. If you’re a salesperson, and you’re making these here’s my face as I walk down the street. And all you’re doing is talking about how badass you do at sales and sign up for my XYZ and I can make you badass too. That’s, that’s a pyramid scheme. What you’re selling there is you are going right back to like the 1980s you know, scams type of thing. And now there are other people who they get on and they talk and I see a couple of them or once a while and they’re actually giving you advice, telling you, you know, the type of conversations we’re having here. What about this? What’s your opinion on this? And they’re experienced in their field and they have a real opinion and real advice that can be helpful to people. It looks the same with the volume off, but it’s completely different. The one guy, I think, is building a good personal brand. The other guy’s a con man who’s kind of like, grabbing, grabbing onto the coattails of these people who actually are putting out good content, and saying, hey, some people aren’t going to know the difference. And maybe I can trick a couple of them and they’ve given me 50 bucks. So, building a personal brand is huge nowadays, but you have to actually have something to say and know what you’re doing. And then get out there and say it and do it as well. That’s that part is just constant work. And then you might put in, you know, 10,000 hours and nobody gives a shit about you. Maybe you’re just not very good at it at talking communicating to people. So you can put yourself out there, it doesn’t mean people are going to pick it up and want to want to follow you or want to listen to you or anything. 


Yeah, well, I mean, one school of thought is you know, get it, get it started and then you get better. So, you know, if you, But to your point, you have to have some value that you can provide, even if you’re not a good communicator. Those are some skills you can pick up along the way, right? 

Yeah, I would say don’t be DJ Khaled. And what I mean by that is actually provide some value. Don’t just keep yelling about how much value you provide. And then you’ll be all right. You can’t just yell your name and be like, Hey, it’s me. Come and listen to me and give me your money for whatever reason you have that day. No, actually provide value. If you have nothing to say, don’t bother. Don’t get on and put your voice out there. It’s a waste of your time. But if you want to have something to say, and you think you might suck at it, when we started our podcast, a year ago, two years, I don’t even know how many years ago it was now. It could be one could be two. I was probably terrible. I won’t go back and look at it. It was horrific. And if I look at myself, a year from now, I’ll probably be horrified with

Today, yeah, but, you know, that just means you’re getting better over time. So if you look at yourself a year ago and say, Man, I used to have my stuff together, what happened? Then maybe you should stop, you’re getting worse. 


Well, then, you need to go to a rehab or something. Alright, so speaking of, of early days, can you remember any early mistakes that you made and lessons you learned from it? 

In business and startups? 


Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 

Which early mistakes are not too embarrassing to share? Paying developers to create something when I didn’t quite know what I was making. What I big mistake. The thing I learned from that, and I think I haven’t written down somewhere on my wall on a posted or something like that is you can’t pay people to care. Yeah, if you have a startup idea, and you need to have at that core of, you know, college roommates or however many, I think one of the reasons so many of those startups succeed is they’re all in it together and they all care. Yeah. If you have a great idea, and you’re going to execute it, and you go out and you pay a developer, you pay one of the best developers, you can find you get Mark Zuckerberg, what ends up happening is he takes your idea and he makes Facebook and leaves you screwed. Because he doesn’t give a crap about you. And whatever you’re paying him to build the website. If it’s any good, they’re going to take it and make it themselves most likely. And or even more likely than that, they’re not going to put the time and energy in or work with you in the way that’s necessary to make a new idea actually come to fruition in this collaborative way, they’re going to get frustrated when you keep changing tweaking things and stuff like that because it’s a new idea and need constant tweaking, but they’re paid for this, you know, waterfall project type thing where they need to get this part and then this and they’re getting paid. And we’re paying them by our end. But they’re still getting frustrated because they keep going back around and stuff. Because they don’t really care, what they care about is that they’re getting paid properly for their time. Or maybe you sold them on the idea a little bit. So that’s kind of cool. But they’re going to get bored really quick. So paying a developer, you’re better off going, taking night classes and learning to code yourself, probably you’ll get your idea completed faster than paying a developer who really doesn’t care about the project. And don’t convince yourself they do care about the project, because you got him excited one day, no, don’t, you can’t pay somebody to care. They have to actually care. You have to either bring them in as part of the team if they’re not interested in joining the team being part of it. And they don’t care. So why would you pay him to work on it? So that’s, I think one of the most difficult ways to get something off the ground, if you’re not a developer, is how you going to find a developer and have them care. Anybody who is available can’t be that great. 


Yeah. A couple of messages. So, you know, for young entrepreneurs, if you’re in college, you know, find somebody in your dorm room and make sure you kick things off. And if you’re not, maybe consider going back to school and finding the right partner, or, you know, that be your point. That’s what we do here. We help entrepreneurs work on their technology and, you know, get it off the ground. So didn’t mean to plug it, but just wanted to, you know, carry the conversation forward. 

All right, great advice. We say that on our podcast when your company is really a big part of what you’re talking about, leaving it out is more awkward than plugging in. So yeah, yeah.


So yeah, I mean, it thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts. Is there anything else that you’d like to share, which I haven’t asked already, and also, please do let us know how we can get in touch with you your company URL and website. And we’ll add it to the show notes as well. 

Absolutely. So I wrote down a couple of things here ahead of time. And again, our podcast, if you market podcast, one of the things we like to try to do is zero prep. So that we have time to do it, if not what we do for a living. So yeah, and neither our guests, so we like to keep it minimal. And yet when I go in somebody else’s, I always want to have some prep, because I’m trying to build a personal brand and I don’t want to come across as an idiot. So to entrepreneurs out there to people trying to make it their own startup, a couple, kind of more general tips. Be organized with everything you do, especially if you’re young and you don’t have kind of classical business training. Be organized, write your ideas out, organize them, and keep shuffling them around. Then after that, if you think you’re going to overcome everything else by your good idea and hard work, like oh, I just worked 20 hours a day I can make this happen. Figure out how to be efficient. If you’re spending a ton of time working, you’re going to burn yourself out. And only half of that time matters because you keep, you know, logging on to whatever, Reddit or whatever websites people fall down to for six hours. And then I wonder where the time went, like figure out how to be efficient with the time you’re spending working on your project. And a big thing in that area. and again, if you’re young, you may not know this, have run into this yet, but figure out how your brain works best, and really cater to that. So when you’re young, you can work you know till four in the morning and then wake up at six in the morning. And it doesn’t have a huge effect on you. But as you start to get older, you notice if you don’t get that proper amount of sleep, your brain doesn’t function as well, the next day. Yeah, and there’s a lot of things that can affect you that way. And when you’re younger, you can have that not impacted you as much as you get older, if you actually practice from the get-go, you know, if you’re practicing at that young age, you’re keeping your brain sharp anyway. So if you want to be a smart and entrepreneur, the smart part, you got to take care of your brain. So I would say figure out how much sleep you need and what your sleep habits can be and try to stick to that. You know, your environment, figure out what kind of environment you work well, and you think well, and, and stick to that exercise. Figure out, does exercise really help you keep your brain sharp because that’s what you want to be an entrepreneur. That’s what it is. You’re not building a wall and you got strong shoulders and you can pick up a lot of rocks and build this wall. It’s your brain, you need a sharp brain. And alcohol. Does alcohol affect your brain negatively the next day? Most of us. It does. Maybe figure out how if you have an important meeting, don’t go out and get trashed the night before. It may seem cool, but the people who win pay attention to all these things. And when they have that presentation or even they’re meeting that person the next day, they’re sharp. They’re not hungover. They don’t look like crap. They’re not scatterbrained all over the place. They’re sharp, they’re professional because they knew the night before, I need to get four hours of sleep. They knew that so they were in Las Vegas, but they still went back to the room to get four hours. And they, you know, didn’t drink too much the night before, just know your limits a little bit, set some limits to keep your brain sharp. So you don’t blow it those times when you need to be sharp when you’re meeting with a developer need to go over everything. If you don’t have your head on straight. Because, you know, you’re not taking care of all these things that affect your ability to think properly. You’re not going to succeed as a startup, you’re not going to succeed with whatever those business ventures are. So I’m probably stretching you a little long here. One other thing I want to throw out – startups. My company MountainTop Data has a startup scholarship. We’re just starting to promote this now. Basically, what it is, is we’re Data Company, we have business contact information, and emails and phone numbers, people inside the businesses. And we want to give that away to startups. So we put this out. There’s a form on our website where you can just put in your startup’s information. And if you have a legitimate business target for whatever your products or services, we’ll review that, and we’ll come back to you and say, great, you know, let’s talk about the data you need and give it to you. We’ve got API access, or even keeping companies where data is part of their product or service. We want to push this data out to startups and get them to help them get off the ground, help them remove kind of that part of the hurdle from either the business development or the product development or whatever it is they need that small data for, you know, not it’s more list that the needle this morning, we go to the site, and you can see what kind of stuff we have. But yeah, I’d encourage startups to take advantage of that. It’s just starting. So I have no idea what’s going to happen with this. It’s kind of, you know, some people call it a dumb idea. But we just are going to give away access to our data to startup So come check it out.


That’s very generous of you. Thank you so much.

Yeah, sign up before we change our mind.


All right, great. Well, thank you so much for being with us and sharing all your knowledge about b2b marketing. And, you know, for this scholarship program, that’s amazing touch as well. I hope to bring you back and learn more from you about all about marketing.

Sure, anytime. Thanks for having me. 


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