041 | Side Hustle Business While Working A Full Time Job, With Mark Hayward

Mark Hayward - Podcast Guest

Today we will be talking with Mark Hayward. Mark has a bachelor’s degree in politics from the University of Leicester. I hope I pronounced that correctly. Somewhere in the UK for as long as you understand us from the corporate world, but he has an entrepreneurial mindset. And he has over 2012 years of experience in working in the civil service, and two of the Big Four firms. He’s really keen on professional and personal development. Mark also hosts a podcast called absolute business mindset.


Mark, we are so glad to have you here and learn from you today about this concept of a side hustle.


Hello, there. Hi.


Right. All right. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what do you do in your corporate job?


Okay, so I work in a big for an accountancy firm, but I work in their consultancy wing where we sell an implemented software for companies that have globally mobile staff. So people that traveled around the world within a corporate environment would use our calculators and various other tools that we have for them.


Awesome. And you have a side hustle. So tell us a little bit about that side hustle.


Sorry, my side hustle is that I do podcasts, as you said earlier on is called absolute business mindset. I’ve been doing it for four years, five episodes, where I’ve come from doing a lot of solo monologues on what I wanted to talk about, which was business into a new era where I’ve started to do interviews as well.


That’s great. And so how do you treat this as a side hustle? Like, is it generating revenue for you? Is it just your passion?


Yeah, so it’s mainly my passion. I really got interested in doing a podcast because I started listening to them. And really found it was a good medium I could listen to on my commute into work or at the gym or walking the dog. And I really found it was really interesting. And I learned stuff. And I really felt podcasts and audiobooks were really things that I had a passionate about. So I decided to start one. And as I say it was a real baptism of fire. I didn’t know how to start a podcast, I did a lot of reading online. And to understand how the best way of being able to do it. But it took me a while to get better. Dean is like silly things like they tell you on these courses that you should get a podcast or 10 podcasts at the start and then get on the news and noteworthy on iTunes. I didn’t know anything about that. So I just started releasing podcasts at the end of 2017. And just released them. Yeah,


Yeah. And so how did that go? Like, how have you been doing in terms of your podcast?

And your side hustle?


Yeah, so I have to admit, at the start, it was quite slow the numbers I joined the hosting platform, which gave me details about demographics and stats. And I’ve got to be honest, at the start, it was very slow. But over these at 45 episodes, I’ve gained an audience. And so I now release every Sunday night. And it’s interesting, the Monday morning, by the time I wake up because I have people in the UK in the US who are interested in my podcast, by Monday morning, I do now have a decent chunk. It’s not massive numbers, but it’s a decent chunk of steady people that actually like me and respond and interact with me.


Awesome. That’s great. And so, um, did you also meet any setbacks? You know, as you said, like, you didn’t know how to launch a podcast? Did you have any false starts where, you know, you tried something and things didn’t work out?


I kept it quite simple at the start because I was just learning as I was going along. I didn’t overcomplicate with, with interviews, or anything like that, it was just really a forum. For me to be able to speak to people about business, I think the main driver behind it was that in my 20s, I didn’t have that sort of support. And so when I hit my 30s, and at a certain stage of my career, I thought it would be useful to let people in on the business world and sort of help people along as best I could with the message that you can achieve, you can get promoted, you can be diligent and be concerned about your business and concerned about your corporate career. And that’s good. And you should be able to afford your career. And equally for your side hustle, which, which is really important for a self-development point of view, as much as a manager point of view.


Awesome. And so, you know, there are a lot of entrepreneurs professionals in the audience. And, you know, they’re interested in, in this concept of side hustle, would you say would you recommend podcasting as being one of their side hustle.


So it’s, it’s really become a bit of a hot topic at the moment in the last two or three years, you find in now that people are doing podcasts that would never even considered it, maybe when it was first started 10-15 years ago. So I think it’s, it’s definitely something that I would promote to people to do, even if you’re in a corporate career, I would say it’s good because it makes you think about how to prepare for demos or for client meetings, or meeting, any sort of meeting. Because you have to turn around information quickly. You need to be able to present yourself, you need to be able to look the part you need to be able to deliver confidently and all these things have come along by basically doing podcasts. And so I think anyone that’s out there, who wants to build up their confidence, who equally wants to try and gain some traction in the market for helping people. I would say a podcast is a great option.


Awesome. And let’s say, you know, somebody came to you and asked for advice on how to launch a podcast. What kind of advice will you give them?


Well, it’s one of the sort of extra side how which I’m trying to do at the moment, I’m trying to leverage to monetize a little bit too so the two things I’m sort of promoting on my website is to do business coaching, and equally how to set up a podcast on a shoestring. So equally, yes, I could definitely help people, I definitely have done mistakes and that I did and I would say that I could definitely help anyone along the path of setting up a podcast with no support. Basically, I’ve got no, no team with me, I do all of the emails, I do all of the recordings, all of the editings all of you know, doing YouTube videos, as well. So that’s all going to be uploaded. So I could definitely help people who wanted to sort of engage in this sort of arena.


Cool. And so let’s just talk about, you know, some other side hustle ideas as well. Like, have you considered Any other ideas? Are you basically you know, when you said, Okay, I want to start cider. So you went straight up, podcasting?


Yeah, I kind of went into podcasting. Initially, as I said, it was a hobby more than anything, as I said, I’m trying to leverage into other areas. The problem is, I, I’ve got a lot of ideas and not enough time, basically, in my life. So I’m trying to focus on something that I believe very strongly, which I’ve talked about on my podcast is the 70-20-10 principle. So my 70% is my career. Yeah, and I’m on a trajectory of my career. 20% is my podcast. And I suppose I could sort of link in the YouTube because at the moment, I’m not really leveraging YouTube, especially well, but I’m still just recording because, at a later stage, it might be useful, or I might be able to leverage that. My sort of 10% that’s where I struggle. So business coaching, I’m sort of exploring that at the moment speaking to a few friends and colleagues who, who have done something similar a couple of people that I’ve just randomly met on a digitally which, which I’ve got some meetings next week to talk about. So I kind of got that as my sort of 10%. But equally, I am also trying to leverage affiliate marketing, as well. So I’ve just gone into an agreement with my hosting platform to do some affiliate marketing on there. So as I say, there are lots of my I’m struggling to focus, like, my focus is career and my podcast that the remaining 10 I struggle because there are a few things which I’d like to be able to try and push for.


I think 10% is pretty dialed down like a lot. I struggle with much more than 10 10%. Or if you have it at 10%, I think that calls.


Doesn’t it’s like your 70% of the stage is 70% or maybe even more. And so yeah, so a lot of my time extra, on top of my job is doing my sort of my side hustle.


Yeah, that’s great. So, to summarize, basically, you know, you found a passion, and then you turned it into a side hustle. And then you continued, basically, you know, working on it as a passion. But now, now that you have traction, I think now you’re considering monetizing it and leveraging it for subsequent cider souls or, or something related to what you’re already doing.


Correct. Yeah, exactly.


Awesome. So that’s, that’s a great way to get started. Now, to continue the discussion, like can you suggest any other skills that people can leverage and start their side hustle. So podcasting, obviously, is one where, you know, people may enjoy conversing with other people learning from them. But what are some of the other ideas that you may share?


So I had a have failed, I didn’t even get to a business stage I had, I had a business which I was sort of exploring, maybe about two years ago, 18 months ago, which was to have an AI business. And for various reasons, it never really kicked off which so I’ve kind of gone through that stage. Equally, I think if something happened to my career, I would contemplate doing something to do with sales. Because a lot of the presentation skills and a lot of the skills that you can learn some of the stuff that I do in my career is related to business development, which is different to sales, but a lot of it is being able to go out and speak to people and build relationships and sort of have connections with people. So I know of a couple of people who are entrepreneurs, and one of them said to me, would you do a side hustle of your satellite be on my cut my team and, and sell my app? Unfortunately, I’ve had to turn him down. Because as I say, my I haven’t got 17 2018 to include something which I’d want to do, like do well on so I’ve had to turn that down. But yeah, there’s a myriad of different things, you can sell a product, you can sell a service, you might if you’ve got something that you’re keenly interested in, I always remember a thing that I heard on a podcast, which was about Pokemon. Now, I’m not a big Pokemon fan. But when I was growing up, it was on TV, and it began in kids younger, but I remember, I remember someone saying that. So Pokemon was big in the 90s and the noughties, but they went disappeared for a long time, if you’d have been a Pokemon fan and had your own podcast, since the noughties and you, you were talking about it regularly, that the chance of Pokemon Go with the AR tool that came out a couple of years ago, if you’d have done 10 years worth of podcasts on Pokemon, and then it would have gone viral as when Pokemon GO came into the UK and across the world. And it just shows you like you do need patience in business. And sometimes your head of the game, sometimes you’re behind the game. But essentially, I do believe that there is a time for everyone. And if you work hard and a persistent and an aim to deliver high quality, then your time will come around.


Yeah, yeah, it’s like anything in life. And you know, any, anything that brings in a lot of rewards carries a lot of risks. And you need to be patient. I mean, you can get lucky in some cases. But you know, in general, you have to keep going at it and be resourceful and just try it out.


So many people just see the peep the YouTube is an Instagram influences that suddenly go viral and then have millions of viewers followers, whatever. And the reality is, most people never get that lucky. Yeah, most people, if you’re going to do something, it’s the whole 10,000 hours, you need to be able to deliver 10,000 hours of something to be able to prove that you’re good at it. And I think so many people think it’s all going to be great, I’m just going to do three posts, and then suddenly become famous. Well, as I say, there are examples of that. But probably those people that got that, that example of maybe like 10 posts on Instagram, and then suddenly became hugely popular, they’ve probably done lots of different businesses before or attempts to get there. It’s very, very rare that people just turn up and, and sort of do something and it hits viral. So I would say my biggest sort of is persistence and patience. You need to keep on doing what you’re doing and believe in what you’re doing. And an equally you need to be patient because as I said, just like your time will come


For sure patience consistency. And to your point you know, you’re talking about Pokemon GO earlier. And I remember the creator of Pokemon Go, he said that it was an overnight success, which took 20 years to build. So, you know, he has, you know, Nintendo has been trying to have a big hit for 20 years in this space. And I took that much time all those failures, we never hear about that. Yeah. About the success. Okay, so, so going back to the podcast, you know, and this is one thing that a lot of people struggle with, it’s about sharing your knowledge. So you know, in a podcasting business, or even if you’re, you know, you’re teaching something online, or you’re building a course, it’s about sharing your knowledge. And a lot of people are apprehensive about it. So what do you think about this, like how liberal you should be about sharing your knowledge with the world.


Okay, so my world at the moment, the way that I conduct my career in life is that it is distinctly two different things. So the podcast world, I’m talking to people who, who are interested in developing personal development business, and I’m happy to share with those people, my ideas, my thoughts, my experiences, some of the way that I want to develop and, and so that is a very open liberal sort of, medium for people to learn from me, equally, the people that I work with, it’s a different kind of story. Because in that environment, there is competition. There are other interested parties, I would say one of the biggest things in a corporate environment and probably this will turn a lot of people off, but they might turn some people on is that is just so much to do with people skills, and how you work with other people. And how you influence other people. That it’s, it’s, it’s a big thing, you do interactions with people, and therefore in that environment, I’m a lot less, don’t get me wrong, I would support someone if someone came for help, or wanted me to be equally are not going in a corporate environment and sort of sharing my ambitions or sharing where, where I want to achieve them and how I’m going to get there, that that kind of is, is separate. Now, if someone at work listens to my podcast, they would hear a lot of the stories and it’ll be absolutely fine. But I think it’s different. It’s a different environment. And they both need to be treated with skills, and different techniques.


Go All right. Now let’s talk about time management. So you know, a lot of people are ambitious, and they want to, you know, start their own cider. So then they have a family social life, and you know, it’s time for entertainment. How do you balance all this? How do you manage your time so that you can, you know, do a good job at all of these things?


I struggle I do to be able to do all the things that I want to do I find it very difficult to be able to time manage every aspect of my life. I would say that the career is what it needs to be and what whatever time frame they need their family and friends, I try. And I try and designate periods, which are just dedicated to my family and friends. That that before the podcast stuff started to pick up was the weekends. And now we’re doing everything in the week. But obviously, during interviews and timeframes, it’s sometimes difficult. So what I tried to do with family, especially my immediate family, so I’ve got a wife and two kids, is being able to designate time where I’m there, I’m present, I’m not thinking about my side, hustle all my career, they are my primary focus. And so It’s a tricky balance. And to be honest, someone told me in the corporate career, beyond even doing a side hustle, just talking about corporate career, and they said, it’s a constant balancing act. If you spend more time at work, you’re going to neglect your family, you spend more time with your family, you’re going to then neglect your career. And he said there’s there isn’t an equilibrium. And I think that’s kind of what I found with, especially with the side hustle as well, is that it’s quiet, you just have to find the zone. We are especially family. So my family very important to me. But there are zones where it’s like, and I’m not going to respond to email, I’m not going to try not to such to me, yeah.


I’m going to say that we’re going to go out and we’re going to go and do something. And they’re my primary focus. I think that the key balances if you’re trying to still respond to things while you’re with friends, even it doesn’t have to be family with friends and socialize. And if you’re constantly looking at your emails or your social media, I think that’s where people fail. Because you do need to balance you need to be able to find downtime, or whatever downtime is for you. You need to be able to have that in your life as well.


Yeah, that’s very well said. All right. So you obviously need some time, but what are some of the other resources that you need to launch side hustle or small business?


So one of the things that I seriously come about, and I’ve sort of agreed that it wouldn’t happen until I start getting revenue is to automate a lot of the stuff that I do. So when I’m just I just been advised about some social media automation. So I’ve basically in this last week of an experiment in with different social media with us on LinkedIn, or Twitter or in the Graham, on trying to leverage some automation, which is going okay. And I think that gives me an ability to be able to maybe automate some of the promotion of my YouTube for I said, to the existing, but it’s not really being leveraged at the moment


Yeah. So um, so, you know, we already talked about you need persistence, you need consistency, and you obviously need to invest your time. But besides that, if somebody wants to launch their side hustle or any other small business, what are some of the other resources that they need?


So for me at this stage of my side hustle, and I’m thinking about automating things. So I just was advised by someone that I interviewed that I should be thinking about trying to automate some of my social media. So what I’ve tried to do in this last week is trying to automate my LinkedIn that my Twitter and my Instagram posts. So it’s still experimental stage, I kind of the way I conduct my sort of my business in the side hustle is that I just try and experiment with things. And just what works. drill down on what doesn’t work leave, because one of the examples, I set up a Patreon account probably about six or nine months ago, and, and set it all up properly. And we had tears and it looked great. It was Yeah, I thought it, it made sense. But I really lacked any sort of traction on there. So I’ve kind of, Okay, I did that for a couple of months, it’s not really working of the things that are starting to work or need my attention. I’m going to focus on that. And this is, this is what I think people need to be able to do, they need to be able to be flexible. Yeah, an experiment as well. And some things work some things, as we talked about persistence, some things, you need to drive forward and keep doing other things. If it’s your 10%, always just something that you’re thinking about it, try if it doesn’t work, you’ve already got all of them I’ve got all these social media platforms already set up. And they’re all ready for me. So if I do want to leverage one or the other, particularly because one is more popular, or then that then I’ve got all those things available. So I would say, for somebody who wants to start a podcast, do your prep work, because I think you’d like obviously, with the podcast, you don’t want to do your prep work so much that you never release anything. But equally Do you read in, there might be a quote, there are courses out there that you can do. But to be honest, I think I found a lot of fun in doing it myself. So I would say to people do your research. But then make sure once you’ve got to the point of you know, your staff in action, go out there and just try it. If it doesn’t work, you can always pivot into something else.


Yeah, that’s good, good advice, for sure. You know, just do your homework and take action and implement because otherwise, if you keep analyzing things, you know, you’ll get into this analysis, paralysis stage. Now, you did mention that, you know, you’re trying to automate things, and it may also need some financial resources. Is that right? Like, because the theme of this show is bootstrapping. So how much of this you can just bootstrap with minimal or no investment.


All of it, all of it. You can do it all yourself. You can learn it you can you can do the recordings you can. There are, there’s a many different ways whether you’re using something like audacity or garage band, and you want to look at the equipment, what Mike you’ve got and put in a muffler on the top, what video, you can do all of this, the all of the details are on online. But then some people prefer to be sitting in a classroom and being taught how to do something equally, if that’s the way you learn, then you might have to do an investment. And some of these courses are not cheap. But if that’s the way you learn, that’s, that’s the best way for you, I think, only once you’ve done something long enough and, and sort of my mentor, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t use investment from my career, until I brought revenues in from this side hustle. So that’s why I’m trying to think about doing the business coaching because that will generate revenue, which means that I might be able to automate, I might be able to get someone to promote my YouTube channel, which is another thing I’m kind of thinking of doing at the moment. So some people want to invest their own money and happy to put it into a course or whatever. For me, it was more It was like what the theme of the program is bootstrapping, doing it yourself learning the skills. And if I ever automate 21 hours, and I know how to do it, so I can’t be ripped off.


Cool. That’s great. Alright, so when you did start your side hustle, how much of the math so you know, you did some research about the topic and your own passion. But how much research did you do on the target customers? The target market? You were trying to approach?


Yeah, so. So when I started, I wasn’t really sure who my target market was. And I about I don’t know, 10-20 episodes in I started was listening to John Lee Dumas Entrepreneur on Fire. And, and he, he sort of promoted his website, and I started reading that and they, they start talking about your avatar, like who is your, the key person that you’re trying to target? And I really thought about it after doing that reading. And I thought to myself, well, who am I actually doing this for? And that’s when I started thinking about my avatar being someone English speaking, but not necessarily exclusively, but I would imagine English speaking, being between the ages of 2021 to maybe 35. So someone that is earlier in their career. And so I started doing that sort of thought process, and then I started to tailor my stuff to it. And then I started looking at my statistics from a hosting platform. And they backed up.

The people that we’re listening to me were, English speaking was educated. We’re trying to try to push career forward. And I actually trailed doing some Instagram promotions, Yeah, a little while ago, which I’d sort of mixed reviews, but they gave us some really good statistics on the people that were like in and viewing my, my videos and my, my posts. And so that kind of backed up what the statistics from the podcast was so. So it really just built up over time where I found my audience. And I think that sometimes takes a little while for people to really get into the groove, because of the kind of thinking, well, who is that person? And I think everything I’m just saying is a good starting point is scratching your own itch. If you don’t know who your avatar is, you don’t know who the best person is. Just do things that that I that you would be interested if you are 20, or things that you’re even interested in at your age now is not a bad way to start to do things that help you initially. Because that just gives you a little bit of fuel for the first few episodes. Yeah, that’s

Good advice. Because a lot of people do get stuck at, you know, trying to figure out exactly who they’re going to market to, and all that. So it’s a good way to just get started and figure things out as you go. There’s nothing wrong with that. And, you know, a lot of people like, you know, in this case, your podcast, and some other businesses who have become pretty famous, they go, you know, through the discovery process. So that’s great. Now, tell us how did you get your full year first set of customers are our listeners.


So I leveraged I worked really hard on social media, I think that was a free platform that I could promote. And I could talk about. And so initially, it was Twitter, only because I had an account. And I didn’t know very much about the other of obviously Facebook as well, but I tried Twitter, and it gave me a bit of traction. And then when I started working out my demographic, it started to fit Instagram more. And actually, Instagram is actually a creative platform. You know, I think Twitter isn’t creative, but Instagram, you have to, you have to model on a picture or video, what your design. When I initially looked to Instagram, oh, I, I wasn’t the best at taking photographs. And it put me off for quite a long time. But actually, when you start being thinking about yourself and being creative in that sort of environment, you can talk about business, but you can actually be farm you can be sharing, you can like give a little bit of your life as well. And so that’s why Instagram’s for me is a big draw at the moment because I think that’s where a lot of people are. Actually, I actually think Instagram’s a bit nicer than Twitter at the moment. As a face, you see that person that you’re into acting with? And I think it makes it a little bit of a nicer platform Twitter can be quite brutal at times, I must admit.


Yeah, for sure.

Alright, so now let’s talk about a little bit about your personality. So can you share with us? What are your core strengths and weaknesses and how they have helped you in, in your business? business life?


So I think I think weakness is, I sometimes struggle to focus on one thing, and I think we’ve talked about this a couple of times. And in my career, it’s very easy to take on too many projects. So actually, one of them the books I read was like flexing your no muscle. So I think I’ve had to learn how to actually say no to people. Now. No, actually, it’s quite a layered quite like this a lot to actually say no. And actually to say no. Well, that doesn’t offend anyone that does that keeps everyone on the same ship and you’re all moving in the same direction is actually a really underrated skill. So I’ve sort of developed my unfocused mind into developing a skill, which I think I can now deliver. And I’m confident to deliver in a corporate world and on a side hustle world that I can actually not going to offend people. And I would actually, people should do some reading on this because too many people just say yes to everything, especially younger people want to say yes to everything. And although younger, you’ve got fewer responsibilities. You do need to think about how to say no as well. Yeah.


Well, yeah. And in the same tone, some people always say no to everything. So yes.


Equally, yes, yes. There are those people out there, they should literally learn how to say yes,


that’s right. All right. So have you been networking with other people who are in a similar situation where they have launched their own side hustlers and all that?


Yeah. So. I started going to a London podcast meetup. So I don’t know if they have where you are. But in the UK, they have something a website called meetup, where you have that as well. Yeah. And basically, I just did a search for for podcast in London. And I found this group. And actually, the first person I interviewed was someone that I met on the first time that I went to this meetup. And we had a lightness of mind. And Dr. Peter, if you’re, if you’re listening, thank you. And he was really interested. And it was really good too, to build up a sort of shared community where people went into it, that didn’t have an ulterior motive. They weren’t trying to sell anything, per se to you. And so yeah, so I have started networking. The other thing I did this week was this the first time I’ve done anything, so there’s a, there’s a guy in the UK, also called Rob Moore, who does the disruptive on the entrepreneur. And he did a, he set up a WhatsApp group for people he supporters. So I jumped on it, I was at lunch, and I saw this come through, so I applied for it, I got on it now. Now, a lot of more stuff is to do with the property. So probably, I would say is like 85% of the people that are on the WhatsApp group are people that are dealing with properties and their property, businesses, etc. But I found two people who both live in London who both have business coaching businesses, and I’m interested to do a podcast.

Oh, so I’ve got to the point where I’m meeting one next week, and I got a call with someone, this, later on, that week, we can arrange a time. And actually, I think I can sort of add value to their, their premise of wanting to set up a podcast and I’m hoping to get something back from that relationship with, with some skills and knowledge, some techniques from the business coaching as well.


That’s great. So the moral of that, you know, networking in any business or profession is very important. And you never know who you’re going to meet and what it may lead up to. I mean, if nothing else, you can have a good conversation, a good meal or a good drink.


I think networking is all about saying yes to things also, like actually signing up for that WhatsApp group actually turning up to a meetup actually. So I found someone on Facebook found me who’s going to be on my podcast soon. And she found me on Facebook. So in that in that scenario, your yes is, is the exact thing you should be saying to people and to initiate conversations, which can build to other things.


That’s great. All right. Now, one of the last questions is like, Are there any learnings that you took from the corporate world and applied into your side hustle and, and vice versa?


And definitely side hustle to my corporate career, as I said, a lot of the sort of skills that I learned on a presentation on demos, meeting clients being presentable being eloquent, or I try to be eloquent, I try and explain what I’m, what I’m doing. That definitely has helped a lot. I’ve definitely built confidence with that as well. So all those things have definitely built my corporate career and my corporate career to the podcast. If I’m brutally honest, no, not really, the skills that I have to exert in my corporate career, or things that are relationship building, which you can do on podcast, we just talked about meetups and things but but essentially the corporate career is something its kind of like I’m kind of doing two things at once. I’m trying to start a startup with this idea of a business and keep a corporate career at the same time. Yeah. And some of the skills do traverse between the two but all equally some more distinguished Lee different and, and can’t be transferred. So I would say I’m definitely the way from the from my podcast to my corporate career. My corporate career, I suppose it’s given me skills are people understanding people, listening to people, one of the biggest skills in in in both areas is listening, which is totally underrated. So many people talk without even listening to your colleagues to your boss, whoever it is. So actually, I suppose that’s a really good one that the podcast taught me to listen to people, when you’re interviewing and actually listening to people in a corporate environment is so critical because people come with an agenda, and don’t listen, they just tell people their agenda. And so I’ve definitely, definitely believe that listening to people first, and then give your views is a much great way.


All right, great. That’s just about the time we have thank you so much mark, for coming onto the show and sharing all your knowledge and wisdom freely and helping out. young entrepreneurs and professionals launched their side hustle. Now before I let you go, can you tell us how people can reach you? If you have a website? or How can they listen to your podcast?


Yep. So so the podcast is the absolute business mindset. It’s on virtually all platforms. So Spotify, iTunes, etc, etc. should be on all of them. You also my website, which is absolute business, mindset calm. There are some details there about the podcast helping your podcast and about business coaching. Equally, you can reach me on Instagram, which is Mark j Haywood, or Twitter, which is Mark Cawood 169. I’m going to have to bring them all in line at some stage. But ya know, just reach out to me there’s definitely lots of different ways, any of those ways to reach out to me give me feedback on the podcast if there’s anything that you like or don’t like, I welcome your views.


That’s great. Thank you so much, Mark. I’m sure everyone in the audience got a lot of value out of this. Thank you so much. Thank you.


Thank you very much for your time.



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